Post subject: Newbie - Looking for some guidance Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 01:46 PM
First post: Jun 29, 2012
Total posts: 4
Status: Offline
Hey, newbie to the forum here, I'll try keep this as swift as possible for you
Basically i quit my well paid job a couple of years ago to follow my passion for music, however unfortunately because i was so in to becoming something in the industry, i think i have over practised myself (80-100 hours a week, every week) and i have developed tinnitus and some other issues,
I do have the choice to carry on however i don't want it to get any worse as i would probably find life very hard to deal with if it did.
Anyway, i have always had snowboarding in the back of my mind from when i quit my job a couple of years ago, i used to inline skate for around 2 years and was quite a dare devil with it (flips, biggest/ most vertical drops i could find etc.). I have also been skiing in cortina (Italy - gorgeous place!! and done a black slope within my first ever week of skiing, parallel skiing etc, - i pick stuff up very fast) And over the last few months i have come to realise that maybe my life path was leading to this all along,
So it puts me in a position now where by i want to ease my way in to the world of snowboarding again, i want to be a freestyle snowboarder however due to my newbieness i know i will have to start at the bottom, i think it would be best for me to take up instructing for a year or 2? As this would give me access to slopes whenever i want (I'm planning on being on the slopes 100 hours a week)
Im looking at courses but a lot of them seem to be in the £5,000-£10,000 mark, my budget is around £2,000, i could maybe stretch if need be,
The idea in my head is that i would like to take up instructing early next year abroad, i would ideally like a course where by they give you a placement at the end of the course on their slopes. - Does anybody know of such programmes that won't cost me a bomb? Im not in it for money or anything so even if i worked for slope time and meals i would be happy
If this is not possible what is my other way to get around it? Is it a good idea to take up a snowboarding instructor course in the UK and then apply for a job abroad? I know my nearest place is Chill Factor - Manchester.
Also what sort of 'extra' costs am i looking for? I know i will need some snowboarding equipment, i will have to do some further research in to what is good etc.
Any help/ guidance is much appreciated on this matter - as you have probably guessed its a very life changing experience for me so i would be very grateful for any guidance
Thanks a lot i look forward to any replies
Bailz
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 02:27 PM
First post: Sep 29, 2009
Total posts: 204
Location: Oxfordshire
Status: Offline
I might be wrong here but it sounds like you've never snowboarded before?
I'm all for people aiming high but i think it might be an idea to take a snowboard lesson first and see how you get along.
You won't get 100 hours on the slopes a week anywhere, 8 hours a day on resorts a day at most....
Now instructing even if you did get an instructor job, your teaching snowboarding (most of the time complete beginners) and when your teaching 75% of the time you won't have your board strapped on.
BASI level 1 will cost you at least £800 doing it in the UK and that's not including travel or accommodation! (500+ course, 125 first aid, 25 child course, joining BASI etc etc)
That won't allow you to work on a mountain though.
I hate to put you on a downer but there is no way you will be able to spend £2000 and be an instructor abroad.
(unless you do a CASI course and do it on your own accord (not through a company)
Sorry to put you on a downer but if you want to get really really good at freestyle its lots and lots of time and money, being an instructor won't really help your freestyle (unless your level 2 or above or a freestyle coach, in which case you'll already be pretty good!)
Also next year seems very soon to plan on being an instructor unless your planning a season this year, even for your level 1 your riding standard has to be very good, think about it, would you want to get taught by someone who doesn't look smooth and makes it look easy. An instructor should think if people are watching me ride are they thinking i wanna be able to ride like that!
I'm BASI and CASI level 1 working towards by BASI 2 and then hopefully gaining my level 3 eventually along with my Adaptive snowboarding course (when its finally released) so if you want any specific information about the course let me know.
BTW i'm not working as an instructor at current the competition is high and summer is a bad time to look for jobs but i have my visa for canada and hope to be out there next year somewhere teaching if not i'll be part timing any job i can get and just doing a season.
All the best mate, just don't think you'll be an instructor teaching all over the world and become a pro free styler overnight that's all, it takes years not months.
Last edited by Bailz on Jun 29, 2012 - 02:44 PM; edited 1 time in total
Dylanrobinson
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 02:28 PM
First post: Apr 22, 2009
Total posts: 1010
Location: Bolton / Edinburgh
Status: Offline
I admire your confidence, but you don't even have your own equipment yet and you want advice on how to become an instructor?!?
Have you actually tried snowboarding yet? It might be best to learn first before you enroll to an instructor training course.
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First post: Sep 24, 2007
Total posts: 4828
Location: stockport/dundee
Status: Offline
I would go back to your well paid job and enjoy a very expensive hobby. 2k will only get you Basi 1 at a push when you include the fact that you will need to start by having lessons, then practicing to become Basi 1 standard (admittidely very low) then take the course, then shadow.
If you managed to get a well paid job, then quit a few years ago, then spend enough time listening to music to make yourself half deaf I'd imagine your at least mid 20's. If your not throwing down double by your late teens your never going to be a pro snowboarder. Regardless of how fast you pick things up. There are hundreds of kids wanting to be pro who can already ride, already have a bag of tricks, have endless amounts of mums and dads cash behind them yet cant get sponsored. You have alot of catching up to do
As has been mentioned above too, teaching is not the same as riding. 30mins to cover 300 yards with a group of beginners wont improve your riding much at all
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ChangeRider
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 04:15 PM
First post: Jun 29, 2012
Total posts: 4
Status: Offline
Well firstly, thank you for the honest replies, I know with these things it is hard to come in as a complete newbie and i feel I've been put in my place already.. Which is good!
In regards to snowbaording, i have done it only at the Chill Factor a few times, i had the natural balance (from skating/ skiing in the past) but nothing at an instructor level (i pre assume)
Ok well where the £2,000 budget came from was taking it to considering purchasing a new laptop after i had sold my audio gear, a £1,700 new macbook pro, so scrap that, lets put the budget at £4,000, would £4,000 get me any closer? I could probably raise more funds also
The freestyle thing, is just a vision i have in my head at the moment, Dashie i appreciate your honesty but i have to argue that you can never tell anybody what they can or cannot do, ok there may be obstacles in my way (very big ones i know) - but still, anything is achievable with the right attitude and motivation towards it.
Im 21, managed to become a financial advisor by 19, then managed to get to #8 in the DJ charts in with one of my tracks within a year in a half, again i put my previous kind of success down to attitude and motivation. Its not that i have put myself half deaf, i managed to pick up some sh1t condition called ETD where you constantly feel like your ears are going to pop (like your on a plane) which gave me tinnitus, and i fear if i live a life of music every day the tinintus is just going to go bad, my actual hearing is fine. So i believe that yes i may have a lot of struggles against me (which is what i have come on here to find out) but anything can be achieved
What i meant by next year to start is, not to become an instructor abroad next year (sorry if i put it that way) - but to get the ball rolling in january time, so hopefully get on to a course of some kind which will help me develop, in the next 6 months un till then i am going to be inline skating at the local skatepark 7 days a week all day to bring my balance back in to place and pick up tricks etc.
So from what you guys are saying it looks like i need to take a BASI course, I'm going to do a lot of research in to that this evening and see what i can find out.
Im guessing by what you guys are saying the snowboarding industry is very competitive and not a very forgiving one. (I am used to this as the music industry is probably the toughest thing i have ever had to deal with(=) Im guessing i need to get to BASI level 2 before i can teach abroad? Ok, well that puts me in some direction. I need to find a place where i can do both courses which will be cost effective.
If i was to reach BASI level 2, is it possible to apple for jobs abroad then? Again, for my first year or so, I'm going to take things as they come, kind of like driving your car at night time with your headlights on, only seeing 200ft in front of me but eventually hitting my destination (hopefully)
I have seen that Chill Factor are offering a BASI Snowboard Level 1 Instructor in october with only 1 place booked at £500, this does not seem too bad, i could then potentially look for somewhere for my level 2. But is it that simple?
Thanks again any further info much appreciated
TaskMaster
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 05:30 PM
First post: Sep 03, 2010
Total posts: 1042
Status: Offline
In all honesty nope there's nothing more to it than that IF you are good enough mate.
I'm just about to start my BASI 1 myself and am looking to do level 2 next year. It'll cost a good bit more than £4k though, I'd say closer to £9/10k all in. If I were you id look to get on some snowboardcoach sessions, they're the guys who do the BASI exams so are of course well placed to judge your riding.
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DereksDontRun
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 05:31 PM
First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1893
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
There's a LOAD of posts on here about different instructor courses, advantages of each and what's needed, so have a dig about.
I'm Basi 2 and have worked with a few other exam board instructors. to summarize as easily as i can. There are various instructor qualifications around the world but arguably the most respected usually are BASI (British), CASI (Canadian) and NZSIA (New Zealand)
CASI and NZ are taught/examined in their respective countries so need to be there, but if you are they can be a cheap(er) way to do things. CASI and BASI most common so will go through them.
BASI is british, we don't really have a wealth of mountains to teach (and be examined on) so it's a tricky situation. BASI 1 is the basics and to keep the costs down it's examined on an artificial slope and thus can only teach on an artificial slope with the qualification. You need BASI 2 to teach abroad (except France who generally need BASI 4). CASI is examined on a mountain so you can teach on a mountain with their level 1.
BASI is has FAR more requirements to its levels than CASI so has a lot of costs associated with it all that possibly might get lost.
BASI 1:
5 day course in UK ~£500
2 day 1st aid course (if you don't already have) ~£60-120
Child protection module ~£25
CRB check ~£25
BASI member fee ~£50
35 hours shadowing - factor in petrol/travel for about 10-20 trips to your local dome ~£???
---------
After ALL that (and probably about £650-750) you get the level 1 and can then teach in a UK dome.
CASI 1:
3 day course (in Canada) £220 + 3 days lift pass
CASI member £?
afaik that's it (but probably need the CRB, 1st aid & child-module to teach in UK)...
So... if you're in Canada it's obvious which one is cheaper... But, without ANY experience teaching from the shadowing hours, how comfortable would you be teaching (and how good do you honestly think the lesson will be) compared to after 35hours experience?
Once you've got the level 1 you can think about 2...
BASI 2:
another 35hrs shadowing (or actual teaching) and then a 10 day exam on a mountain.
CASI 2:
4 day exam, that's it.
So... after level 2 you've done 15 days exam and 70 hours experience with BASI and only 7 days exam (and zero required experience) with CASI...
The level of the riding needed for BASI 2 would really suggest needing a season away and thus why there's a few 10 week GAP courses out there. Snowboard Coach is probably the cheapest (and Ash is v cool bloke) so worth a look there - last year the package for 8 weeks tuition, 2 week exam and accommodation for the 10 weeks was a little under £4k - add equipment, insurance, a season lift pass and a season's food & drink and you're realistically looking at nearing £7k somewhere cheap like Bulgaria and a LOT more in a "more desirable" resort.
and then the budget goes silly with BASI 3 and 4...
So, on the face of it BASI is a pretty expensive option - especially if you can get a season away in Canada and get the level 1 (and possibly the 2 too) while there far cheaper. But, if you need the next CASI/NZ level it means another trip there, which suddenly makes it quite expensive for each "cheap" exam.
Plus (without wanting to start an argument) BASI is generally regarded the toughest and most thorough (if only shown by 5 days plus all the shadowing hours for lvl 1 instead of 3 day for CASI) so are sometimes considered the better qualified. ISIA is a high level instructor standard that needs BASI 3 or CASI 4, so suggests the CASI 4 is similar level to BASI 3, so ripple that offset/weighting down the tree if you want to compare the levels of one against the other.
I went into it wanting to improve my riding as best I can, so went for the toughest one. If you want the cheapest option to go on and teach then it might not be the same choice... Plus, it depends where you want to teach - if you're wanting to teach in Canada or NZ then it suggests looking at their qualifications, but note that over 30 you might struggle with visa and be stuck to EU countries which possibly might favour BASI...
note...
the expenses don't stop afterwards... Yearly membership fee to BASI or CASI plus BASI require a 1 day re-assessment thing every 3 years (no re-assessment for CASI) plus the CRB, 1st aid and child-module need re-doing every 2 or 3 years...
Thank you both for your replies, have been very helpful, especially Dereksdontrun post that has given me a huge insight to what i need to achieve and look in to etc.
I have seen on some websites where they offer if you learn with them they offer you a placement on their slopes straight after you pass the course. Judging by what you have said this seems a little too good to be true, it seems that no matter what if you want to do it it is a very drawn out and expensive option.
I may look in to training abroad then, maybe even my BASI 1 here to start to get the experience up then look to move on abroad somewhere else, i don't really want to live in this country anyway i have always wanted to move away so i will look at what qualifications other countries and companies need, but from what you said if i am looking to go abroad anyway then the BASI may be a waste of time, I'm going to book some lessons in this week and hopefully have a chat to some cool people this week face to face.
Ill also check out that guy that you mentioned
Thanks a lot
DereksDontRun
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 05:55 PM
First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1893
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
I would never say BASI is a waste of time - just might not be the most cost-effective solution if you're only after an instructor qualification and have the ability to spend a season away.
Hell, even if you're not planning on instructing I honestly think BASI is fantastic at just improving your riding (even at it's cost) - level one course for £500 is 5 pretty solid days tuition (and continuous-assessment evaluation) and the level 2 exam is about £550 (price without lift-pass, accommodation, etc) for 10 days tuition and evaluation. Look at lesson prices when abroad and tell me 10 solid days of tuition (from a top level instructor) isn't great value for £550.
Call me a cynic, but I can't imagine anywhere being able to guarantee a job at the end. hell, you might be a complete bell-end and piss off the people running the course - surely they're not going to give you a job then?!?
At the end of the day there isn't really any quick (or cheap) solution - and, to be fair, should there be? if it was easy & quick the quality of the instructors (and therefore the quality of the lessons) will decrease rapidly... Surely you want the best possible instructor (examined as thoroughly as possible and with the most experience) taking any lesson, which sadly makes it all an expensive reality.
Yeah i totally understand, when you go to say chill factor its like £20 for one hour to just ski/snowboard yourself, so full days with tuition for £500 seems like a very good deal taking BASI out of the equation
Yeah i totally agree, i think its hard to say 'guaranteed work' because they really don't know who is going to come through the door.
No i don't think it should be cheap or easy, nothing that requires a true skill should be in my opinion, you should always have to put the blood sweat and tears in to feel like you have earned the reward when it comes to it.
Thanks a lot for your replies though they have been very helpful,
Given me a good insight to what i need to look at now
Much appreciated
snowbadger
Post subject:Posted: Jun 29, 2012 - 07:13 PM
First post: Jun 01, 2011
Total posts: 1093
Location: Warwickshire
First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1893
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
cheers and np, happy to try and help.
just a note... If ChangeRider (or anyone) is going into it as a long-term career and expecting to earn decent cash and ride all over the mountain then you really need to be setting your sights on BASI 4 (or equivalent) top level, examining the instructors, kinda thing.
A lot of low-level instructors only really teach the beginner lessons and earn enough to cover their time away (depending on the hours they can get and the ability to not eat/drink out regularly). So every week is a near-enough repeat of the last, which is fine for someone who's passion is teaching, but if you're expecting to earn cash while riding all over the mountain, it can be a little surprising. And can't imagine being able to support any kinda mortgage (and bills) in UK while living off an instructor hourly rate in a resort - requires a v nomadic lifestyle with little ties over here.
For BASI 4 you need not only dedication and commitment but a lot of talent and ability. But... ironically, to get the qualifications to earn decent cash you need even more money (especially if you don't already live in a resort) to get to the level for 3 and then 4 with the multiple season's riding really required under your belt. And it's not just snowboarding - you'll need a 2nd language and at least level 1 qualification in skiing (or telemark) - both required for BASI 3/ISIA. For BASI 4/ISTD you'll then need to score FIS points by getting points in multiple boarder-cross races. Add a load of mountain-safety and hiking courses plus dissertations about certain aspects of snow-sports... Suddenly it all becomes far more than just strapping on a board and messing about in a park...
and then to get the cash you need to work in france which will require additional qualifications which i think still includes a speed test where you need to be within 18% of an Olympic time down a run... not 100% sure that's the case tho, as I think that's a remnant of the ski requirements (as France's snowboarding is still run by skiers).
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