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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 02:08 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
Has anyone had their money held by PayPal yet?

I had a look at the T's & C's of their money holding policy, and i dont fill any of the criteria for them to hold the money, so in theory they wont touch my money - time will tell the next time i sell something!

Still, i think its slightly outrageous that they're doing it - they have your bank account details, so if you did spent your account balance, they could always attempt to withdraw any refund money from there!

Even so, it means that as sellers, we have even less protection from PayPal! When i had those watches a while back, i sold a few on eBay - 80% where happy with them, but the others either broke them through excessive stupidity (one guy took it surfing when it said 'water resistant') or didnt like they weren't the 'newest model' and put in for a refund on eBay - PayPal automatically seize the money without letting the seller have his say, and then i had to put up a massive fight to the money from being sent back without my say even being considered.

Personally, i really dislike PayPal/eBay these days (10% selling fee, WHAT?!) but what alternatives are there? I made an account on Nochex - MISTAKE. They took £2 from my account without my permission, they have stupid balance limits and have been really poorly reviewed - took me like a week of emails to get them to close my account, and even though i never confirmed the amount taken, they refused to send my money back! Basta®ds!

Wink

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CjKitOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 02:42 PM



First post: Nov 01, 2010
Total posts: 2056
Location: NW London
Status: Offline
I suffered a chargeback once. Sold a phone for £200, sent it to the Paypal address and then the guy claimed his account had been hijacked and Paypal took the money back off me. I contested it of course, but even with proof of postage they said he wasn't liable for the money as the transaction was unauthorised. That's it. I'm out £200!! Bastards!

As far as I'm aware they can't take money directly out of your bank account though - you just end up with a negative Paypal balance and then they demand payment. In fact the £200 had already cleared into my bank account when they reversed the payment.

It works both ways tho. I had my account hijacked a year or so ago. Some a*hole spent about £350 on clothes but Paypal picked up on it themselves, notified me my account had been compromised and then after 2-3 days refunded the money to my account.

Nowadays I tend not to sell anything through ebay and try to get cash on collection or a direct bank transfer if I sell any other way. Bank transfers cannot ever be returned so it's the safest way of receiving money. And regardless of what others may say it's next to impossible for anyone to get at your money with only your basic bank account details.

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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 02:54 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
CjKit wrote:
I suffered a chargeback once. Sold a phone for £200, sent it to the Paypal address and then the guy claimed his account had been hijacked and Paypal took the money back off me. I contested it of course, but even with proof of postage they said he wasn't liable for the money as the transaction was unauthorised. That's it. I'm out £200!! Bastards!

As far as I'm aware they can't take money directly out of your bank account though - you just end up with a negative Paypal balance and then they demand payment. In fact the £200 had already cleared into my bank account when they reversed the payment.

It works both ways tho. I had my account hijacked a year or so ago. Some a*hole spent about £350 on clothes but Paypal picked up on it themselves, notified me my account had been compromised and then after 2-3 days refunded the money to my account.

Nowadays I tend not to sell anything through ebay and try to get cash on collection or a direct bank transfer if I sell any other way. Bank transfers cannot ever be returned so it's the safest way of receiving money. And regardless of what others may say it's next to impossible for anyone to get at your money with only your basic bank account details.


No way! That sucks big time. I remember getting really annoyed over £50, at £200 i dont know what i would have done!

Bank Transfers are the safest, but with people you dont know its always hard to get them to commit - its fine on SCUK because people tend to know each other, which is why i think its the best place to buy/sell stuff - they should have a 'general sales' section Smile

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CjKitOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 02:58 PM



First post: Nov 01, 2010
Total posts: 2056
Location: NW London
Status: Offline
The good thing was that the only reason I was selling the phone was because my mobile provider accidentally sent me two of them Very Happy
So, ultimately I wasn't actually left out of pocket.

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dashieOfflineNon-member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 04:29 PM



First post: Sep 24, 2007
Total posts: 4409
Location: stockport/dundee
Status: Offline
I've been stung by ebay/pay pal.

Sold something that didnt fit someone, they claimed it fitted too big to be a L and must be a fake. Demanded a refund which I sent inc money for them to rtn the postage as I didnt want them to hammer my eBay with bad feedback because they are stupid. They happily took the refund, all was rosy until my jacket never arrived back. I emailed them and paypal asking for proof of postage etc and got nothing back off ebay so raised a complaint. He claimed it was lost in the post but didnt have any numbers and I was out by 75quid. Tough luck. That was ebays attitude too.

Worst bit was the guy had my address from ebay and started hammering my emails saying he was coming round with mates to kick my head in for reporting him on ebay etc. He obv didnt realise I had all his details from the transaction so I sent them all off to the police with a copy of everything. Suffice to say they did feck all and said phone 999 when he turns up.

After random late night phone calls, mainly loud screams and threats of stabbings it all ended with me sending him an email with my phone no and address on with the offer to phone me when him and his mates are outside and I'll come down and kick what I deemed to be £75 worth of damage out of him infront of them. Funnily he never turned up, had a quick facebook stalk and its because he was infact a dad of 4 and a 10 stone weakling who though he could intimidate someone on the internet.

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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 04:36 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
dashie wrote:
I've been stung by ebay/pay pal.

Sold something that didnt fit someone, they claimed it fitted too big to be a L and must be a fake. Demanded a refund which I sent inc money for them to rtn the postage as I didnt want them to hammer my eBay with bad feedback because they are stupid. They happily took the refund, all was rosy until my jacket never arrived back. I emailed them and paypal asking for proof of postage etc and got nothing back off ebay so raised a complaint. He claimed it was lost in the post but didnt have any numbers and I was out by 75quid. Tough luck. That was ebays attitude too.

Worst bit was the guy had my address from ebay and started hammering my emails saying he was coming round with mates to kick my head in for reporting him on ebay etc. He obv didnt realise I had all his details from the transaction so I sent them all off to the police with a copy of everything. Suffice to say they did feck all and said phone 999 when he turns up.

After random late night phone calls, mainly loud screams and threats of stabbings it all ended with me sending him an email with my phone no and address on with the offer to phone me when him and his mates are outside and I'll come down and kick what I deemed to be £75 worth of damage out of him infront of them. Funnily he never turned up, had a quick facebook stalk and its because he was infact a dad of 4 and a 10 stone weakling who though he could intimidate someone on the internet.


I hate people like that, but i think what you did was pretty smart - call his bluff and all.

For some reason this floated into my head and made me laugh, so ill share it with you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of1bVlo_5Y4

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cwjOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 06:39 PM



First post: Nov 13, 2010
Total posts: 364
Location: Glasgow-ish
Status: Offline
I had paypal take £260 out my bank account for some spanish ticket site that I never used, lucky this was back when I had money so it didn't put me into my overdraft btu the money was put back in about 2 days.

As for getting stung on ebay a friend of mine sold a macbook stating it as used, with pictures but the guy was unhappy with it so he made a complaint and got a full refund then banned his paypal account so now my friend can buy nothing via paypal and lost a macbook.

It's all fine and dandy when it works but I heard a few horror stories on reddit from small businesses having months worth of sales held by paypal which could put serious pressure on people living month to month on the money they make.
 
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Trigger85OfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 07:03 PM



First post: Dec 09, 2009
Total posts: 985
Location: Burford, Oxon
Status: Offline
never sold anything on ebay and never will now i know about this going on. mind you if i did and then got ripped off, id hopefully have an address, and being a locksmith i could always just pick the locks and take it back! thats a new business venture i could go into!

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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 18, 2011 - 10:38 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
yeah, the eBay limitations are firstly they take 10% which takes the piss, and then if you have a feedback score of less than 20 then they hold it - only release it under 24 days, if there is no complaint, or if you post the item to the buyer.

Ofcourse, if you dont post it in 24 days, they may well complain and therefore you'll never get your money, if you post it and they claim its lost, you'll loose your money either way.

Buyer safety? Hell yes.
Seller safety? Hell no.

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SnowHawk01OfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 19, 2011 - 08:48 AM



First post: Oct 20, 2011
Total posts: 181

Status: Offline
Sold a guitar on eBay for 60 quid, the guy wanted to save 15quid by collecting. He came to collect and said that I had not specified the damage, a few little dings and didn't want it, but he had already given me the money through PayPal... I said ok I'll give you some cash back, we went to the cash machine and I gave him another 15 quid. Then he went home, complained on PayPal and requested even more money back to which I lost my rag. PayPal kept my funds for 31 days? I think while the complaint was investigated. I got bad feedback too. The guy was a dk, some bookshop owning new jaguar driving bastd. Then eBay took their share or fees and I got very little for selling a quality product.
 
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fen01OfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 19, 2011 - 04:51 PM



First post: Feb 19, 2010
Total posts: 247
Location: Milton Keynes
Status: Offline
just spent 6 days doing battle with them. Sold some speakers to a buyer in Italy at the start of October, got the shipping costs wrong so lost money on the whole thing. I went into account start of november to find that he had stated he'd not received them, so took money from my account.

When there is a dispute, Paypal always seem to find in favour of the buyer; their view being that there are unscrupulous sellers out there. Also, if you do not use a fully signed for shipping service and they cannot check for an electronic signature, they rule in favour of the buyer. Apparently this is a requirement laid down in their T&Cs. the strange thing with this is that E-bay gives you different options for shipping, and on free listing weekends, e-bay restricts shipping costs on certain listings. Paypal is part of the E-bay group of companies...

Their claim review process seems to be just to sit in front of a computer checking shipping numbers. If they do not get the answer they want, they rule in favour of the buyer.

In my case I was told to put a claim in against Parcelforce for the missing item.

Long and short I got the money back, but probably spent more money on phone calls

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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 20, 2011 - 02:20 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
I know, its outrageous.

The problem is, there is no one to complain to either - PayPal dont care what we think as we dont really have any other choice.

We could complain to watchdog, but thats not likely to do anything is it?

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JakeDurbsOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 08:32 AM



First post: Sep 06, 2011
Total posts: 318
Location: Oxford
Status: Offline
Echo everything that has already been said. It's all about buyer protection and the seller's get f all. Sold a few things which were collection only, buyer never showed up but sent enough "I'll be there at the weekend" emails to take it over the 21 day period to open an unsolved payment issue (or whatever ebay call it) so could not reclaim the sellers fees. Ebays response? "Not our fault you didn't raise it sooner and we won't take action against the buyer, even if we did we wouldn't tell you as its against our privacy policy."

Told them that's fine but I will not be using them again. Nobbers.
 
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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 24, 2011 - 12:12 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
Sold some things earlier in the week and was convinced that i wouldnt have my money claimed - seeing as none of the criteria points match my account.

Really f*cked off that they've held the money - the email says 'click here to see if this item is eligible for seller protection' - WHY?! Why the hell do they think the buyer is more important than the seller?

Im livid, and there is no one to shout at/punch. I f*cking hate PayPal.

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J_SmithOfflineSCUK Member
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: PayPal  PostPosted: Nov 24, 2011 - 12:40 PM



First post: Sep 30, 2008
Total posts: 2145
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
Just had a 15 minute conversation with a woman from PayPal and absolutely destroyed her - i wasnt rude, or unpleasant as i know its not her fault that PayPal is diabolical and set up in favour of the buyer.

PayPal decide to hold the money for reasons they can make up on the spot - you are expected to either receive positive feedback to get the money, or to post the item recorded - if neither of these happen, after 21 the case is reviewed. All it takes is for the buyer to say they are unhappy with the product and it goes onto another review stage, where the SELLER has to argue the case, whilst the buyer is sitting pretty with the item, and just one wrong explanation away from a full refund.

People are going to abuse this system, and PayPal will just look the other way.

The other annoying thing is that when you reach the £1900 annual limit, you are suspected of money laundering. Im not money laundering you f*cking idiots, im buying items, and then selling them for profit, which is completely legal and done all over the world.

No one use PayPal, no one use eBay (i still cant get over the 10%)

If one person was to blame for all this, id hunt them down and cut their f*cking head off.

#livid (yes, i use twitter.)

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