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lee.92 
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Post subject: cross over, cross under.. but cross through?
 Posted: Nov 08, 2011 - 05:45 PM
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First post: Mar 01, 2011
Total posts: 71
Status: Offline
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hey,
so i've been looking at carving technique's and have come across several methods used in a variety of situations:
cross over (CO)
cross under (CU)
cross through (CT),
now im sure my understanding (unless someone corrects me) is that:
CO being that you carve with the edge of the board by using your weight and distributing it over the edge in contact to initiate the turn. generally used on wider carves across hill. (Also similar to skidded turns without on edge.)
CU being that you carve the edge of your board by using your lower body to control the edge while your upper body stays perpendicular to the hill while staying directly on the fall line. i.e regular boarders will remain left shoulder forward while making short radius carves with the lower body while flexing and extending legs/ankles to change edge.
but i cant find any info or videos on cross through carving and all i know is that its some sort of combination of the two , so can someone please explain it to me or point in the the direction to where i can find it out.
Cheers |
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Mattylovesthewindchill
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 - 05:55 PM
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First post: Jul 24, 2006
Total posts: 317
Status: Offline
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I didnt really understand your description of a cross over, but your cross under seems a little incorrect - for a start you dont necessarily need upper/lower body seperation for a cross under - you can stay in alignment given the right sort of turn. Cross unders can also be made in large radius carves - it doesnt always have to be short radius.
CO and CU really is talking about timing of flexion and extension.
I think you are over-complicating things a little, to simplify:
Cross over - least flexed at edge change
Cross under - Most flexed at edge change
I have no idea what cross-through turns are. I do recollect philw and some others who know the Canadian system making points about it, maybe they can shed some light. |
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lee.92
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 - 06:17 PM
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First post: Mar 01, 2011
Total posts: 71
Status: Offline
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may be me but your examples provided doesn't really go with any info ive managed to find while browsing the net,
i know CU isnt always used in short radius turns but it was easier in my mind to use as an example, but from what i orignally thought was that CU your upper body stays more center over the board while your body stays more 'shoulder first' while legs are flexed while controlling the edge, but in CO your center of gravity/weight can shift over desired edge to pyhsically control the effective edge thus carving.
i know im pretty bad at explaining things but i hope that helps a bit more.
would like to know whats others say,
not to cause an argument, but would like to know the corrects definitions of the methods. |
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Mattylovesthewindchill
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 - 11:00 PM
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First post: Jul 24, 2006
Total posts: 317
Status: Offline
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It is you.
Cross over - least flexed at edge change
Cross under - Most flexed at edge change
This is the exact terminology AASI uses. You wont find it openly available on the internet.
Your centre of mass always shifts over your effective edge for turning, no matter what sort of turn it is. I have no idea what shoulder first means in your context. |
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Boots
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2011 - 11:24 PM
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First post: Feb 15, 2011
Total posts: 290
Location: Somewhere between the mountains and the sea.
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Mattylovesthewindchill
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 02:21 AM
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First post: Jul 24, 2006
Total posts: 317
Status: Offline
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Boots wrote:
Cross over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzlJqbrnD8A
Cross under
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJVMmQT1 ... ure=relmfu
Cross through (or extreme or push/pull)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1l8e8r9m4Q
I can't do the last one, but I do like the idea of having a lie down on some of those long, thigh burners!
Im not buying those first 2 videos, those turns look similar to me, just one is going faster than the other. Not really much flexion and extension going on in either - those cross unders wouldnt pass a cert 3 exam I dont think.
The cross over turns just look like dead man turns to me, he is just leaning from edge to edge.
So you are saying that cross through is eurocarving in hardboots? |
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Boots
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 08:01 AM
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First post: Feb 15, 2011
Total posts: 290
Location: Somewhere between the mountains and the sea.
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Mattylovesthewindchill wrote:
Im not buying those first 2 videos, those turns look similar to me, just one is going faster than the other. Not really much flexion and extension going on in either - those cross unders wouldnt pass a cert 3 exam I dont think.
The cross over turns just look like dead man turns to me, he is just leaning from edge to edge.
So you are saying that cross through is eurocarving in hardboots?
I'm no instructor, but I can see a difference between the two techniques, and they feel very different when you do them. I expect to be corrected. The third is a definition I found after a little Googlin', so it must be true!. |
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CjKit
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 08:23 AM
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First post: Nov 01, 2010
Total posts: 2056
Location: NW London
Status: Offline
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Those first two videos show exactly what I always thought was the difference between cross-under and cross-over turns. Maybe if he'd been doing shorter radius turns then the flexion would have been more obvious.
They're called cross-under because your legs/board cross under you're body. Whereas cross-over is where you're body crosses over the board.
Even if the exact technique isn't 100% correct (which I wouldn't really know about) the videos are useful to show the general difference between the two. I'm with Boots here, you'll know when you're doing cross-under as they feel very different - a kind of poppy feeling as you pop out of one turn and into the next.
Not sure about that third vid tho - makes the guy look like a bit of a twort and seems like the most inefficient way of getting down a hill I can think of. I'd be pissed if he was doing that in front of me on a piste. Sure it's impressive technique but it would be worse than following a snaking, kindergarten ski school! |
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CjKitPhoto
Flickr
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Boots
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 09:11 AM
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First post: Feb 15, 2011
Total posts: 290
Location: Somewhere between the mountains and the sea.
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CjKit wrote:
it would be worse than following a snaking, kindergarten ski school!
You mean skittles? |
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CjKit
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 09:23 AM
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First post: Nov 01, 2010
Total posts: 2056
Location: NW London
Status: Offline
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well, they are small, brightly coloured and generally kinda round I suppose  |
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CjKitPhoto
Flickr
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dewei
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 12:37 PM
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First post: Apr 20, 2011
Total posts: 252
Location: Brum
Status: Offline
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| When should you use cross-under turns? |
_________________
Piste - park - pipe - pow, I love it all.
Starting snowboarding?afterbang
Looking for Tamworth shredding mates?Midland Shredderz
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ace_mcgraw
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:06 PM
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First post: Feb 20, 2007
Total posts: 4912
Location: That snowboarding hotbed, Norfolk
Status: Offline
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| I must admit I find this sort of thing fairly dull! A wise friend of mine said to me once that "Technique is for skiers!". Maybe that means that I'll never be any good at snowboarding, but over the years I've found it way more fun messing around than worrying about my particular technique for riding! |
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Nice Photos  http://www.flickr.com/photos/ace_mcgraw/
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charlie
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:28 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 8993
Location: York
Status: Offline
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dewei wrote:
When should you use cross-under turns?
Moguls is the first thing that springs to mind. Good cross-under turns (I was taught them as down un-weighting turns) will let you ride a mogul field down the fall line fast. Bloody hard work though.
As Ace says, technique's for skiers... Just have fun. You find that you do stuff like this without thinking about it if you've spent long enough on a board. |
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Official SCUK crash test dummy.
Photography
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dewei
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:42 PM
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First post: Apr 20, 2011
Total posts: 252
Location: Brum
Status: Offline
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Quote:
technique's for skiers...
I switched from skiing earlier this year. 
Old habits die hard! |
_________________
Piste - park - pipe - pow, I love it all.
Starting snowboarding?afterbang
Looking for Tamworth shredding mates?Midland Shredderz
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lee.92
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2011 - 01:53 PM
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First post: Mar 01, 2011
Total posts: 71
Status: Offline
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ah the videos provided give you a better understanding of what i was trying to explain and shows you the difference in the two, regardless if you think its correct or not, and this is another source of info:
http://bomberonline.com//articles/cross_over.cfm
well atleast we came to sort of agreement, apart from one ;D
i know its about having fun but sometimes it pays to know the correct methods and it gives you something to practice on the hill. |
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