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mattmania 
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Post subject: Spinning from flat takeoff
 Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:09 PM
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First post: Jan 30, 2005
Total posts: 45
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
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Has anyone ever tried spinning (I mean 360 or more) off a jump from a flat board takeoff? So, you go into the jump as if you were going to do a straight air trick, but force the spin round while in the air.
Before someone launches into a tutorial of how to do a 360, I know you're supposed to carve into it, and have been doing 3's for years (not saying they're perfect tho). It's just that my skiing mate learnt 3's last week and he jumps normally and then hucks it around. Not conducive to bigger spins but looks kindof cool, and might help me from over-rotating 3's on larger jumps.
On the same over-rotation point, does anyone pop off their toes for a frontside spin for larger jumps? A trainee instructor suggested it to me but never tried.
Many thanks!
Matt |
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cantridepete
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Post subject: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:43 PM
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First post: Oct 28, 2008
Total posts: 2328
Location: Haute Savoie
Status: Offline
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never tried flat base spins but i mostly spin frontside of toes.
i've yet to try it but backside spins of the heels look siiiick!!! |
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject: RE: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:50 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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| must be do-able otherwise how do ppl spin 3s etc off rails? might be worth looking at info/guides for counter-rotation and spins off rails/boxes? |
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BenMagz
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Post subject: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 12:53 PM
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First post: Jan 25, 2010
Total posts: 85
Status: Offline
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cantridepete wrote:
never tried flat base spins but i mostly spin frontside of toes.
i've yet to try it but backside spins of the heels look siiiick!!!
Backside off heels. Eek. Will stick to toes I think.
Do-able just require more effort. |
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DannyBres
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Post subject: RE: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 01:22 PM
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First post: Nov 03, 2010
Total posts: 317
Status: Offline
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whats the different between backside and frontside spins?
y is backside off heels eek? |
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ace_mcgraw
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Post subject: RE: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 01:34 PM
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First post: Feb 20, 2007
Total posts: 4912
Location: That snowboarding hotbed, Norfolk
Status: Offline
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say you're heading off a kicker and spinning 180, if you spin so that your chest faces downhill first, its frontside. If you ride regular you spin to the left (Anti-clockwise), if you ride goofy you spin right (Clockwise). This video shows frontside 360s. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1ENzzd7 ... re=channel
If you spin so that your back faces down the slope, its backside - the opposite basically. This vid is backside 3's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS9B7yTL ... re=channel
Cos of the way you have to spin, frontside spins are normally done off the heels, whilst backside spins are normally done off the toes. But, you can do them by spinning off the other edge, and they look a bit more styley in my opinion (Not that I can do any type of 360!) |
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject: RE: Re: Spinning from flat takeoff
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 01:36 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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assuming you're goofy (from your avatar) - frontside would be a spin to the right (clockwise) - your front/chest is rotated to point down the hill at the start of the rotation. Backside is the opposite - left (anti-clockwise) when goofy, so your back is pointing down the hill. Backside usually regarded as tricker (need more balls) as it's "blind" - looking away from the way you're going (and landing).
now think of your feet and the board-edge as you turn. backside spin is a rotation over the toe edge of your board, so naturally best/easiest to be on that edge of the board when leaving the snow to spin. A backside off heels would mean turning one direction, jumping and spinning the opposite - if you get me. (for goofy you would be leanding over your heels and thus carving right and jump - your body would naturally want to continue the right turn, but you're swinging around to the left in mid-air...). there's 4 spins (back, front, switch-back and switch-front) and 2 edges on a board, so technically 8 different techniques to try and learn... |
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charlie
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 01:54 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 8993
Location: York
Status: Offline
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I can't imagine why you'd want to spin off a flat base other than off a rail, it's so much harder to get a controlled ollie.
As for the backside vs frontside thing, I'll wheel this out again: |
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cantridepete
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 03:22 PM
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First post: Oct 28, 2008
Total posts: 2328
Location: Haute Savoie
Status: Offline
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not the frontside/backside question again  |
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Cuillin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 03:30 PM
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First post: Nov 08, 2010
Total posts: 120
Location: Edinburgh
Status: Offline
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cantridepete wrote:
not the frontside/backside question again
What about onto rails?
(Maybe I shouldn't egg this on!) |
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charlie
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 03:40 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 8993
Location: York
Status: Offline
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| Shush |
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passtherizla
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 04:04 PM
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First post: May 12, 2006
Total posts: 8210
Location: Birmingham
Status: Offline
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charlie wrote:
Shush
Ha Ha... it's my favourite subject.... only cos I'm always right  |
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 06:11 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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charlie - best edit that pic down to ~500 pixels for next time unless you expect SCUK2 to be out before someone asks again... 
oh god, dont ask about front or back onto rails - f-ing skaters screwing it all up and being pedants... Makes me wonder how valid it all is - look at a photo in a magazine and it'll say frontside or backside but it's just a shot, got no idea which side they approached the rail... |
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NickE
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 26, 2011 - 08:30 PM
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First post: Sep 18, 2007
Total posts: 127
Status: Offline
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OK, here’s the physics.
You can’t create rotation in the air. You can speed up any rotation you carry off the kicker by bringing your weight in, but you have to have rotation to begin with. You can also counter-rotate, making your upper body rotate one way so that the board rotates the other way, but there’s obviously a limit to this.
You create rotation off the kicker by having your upper body rotating at the moment you pop. Starting to rotate your upper body will tend to make the board rotate the other way (like the in-air counter-rotation). This is why spins should be done off the edge – it stops the board rotating under you.
Even on a truly flat base, you get some resistance to stop the board rotating, so with good timing you can do it off a flat base, but the more rotation you need the more important the edge grip becomes.
A box will offer a fair amount of resistance to create spin off; a rail gives considerably less. Spinning off rails usually involves some rotation generated on popping onto the rail plus a lot of counter-rotation.
OP – you refer to your “skiing mate” doing spins. Do you mean he’s doing the spins on skis? With skiing you don’t carve into the kicker; you approach in a straight line and put the skis onto the inside edges to provide the grip to stop them rotating. It’s not a flat base, but it’s very hard to spot the difference as the edging required is very slight. |
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mattmania
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 27, 2011 - 02:04 PM
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First post: Jan 30, 2005
Total posts: 45
Location: Kent
Status: Offline
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Many thanks NickE, i'm glad someone brought some physics into it as this is something I wanted to debate. Good point about counter rotation (guessing that's why shifties are easier when you look the other way), yes having thought about it my mate on skis was digging his edges in so was probably pushing into the spin from the ground.
So, when doing a normal 360 one pre-loads the body, as you said using the edge to grip the ground to stop that potential energy (PE) turning to kinetic energy(KE). As one jumps, the PE is turned into KE by unloanding. Now, if one didn't preload it would be a lot harder, but i'm pretty sure that one can initiate rotation in the air by moving the body muscles (CPE-KE). Try doing two 90s in opposite directions on a trampoline, tough but possible (please let me know if i've got anything wrong, long time since I did physics).
So, without preloading, do you reckon it's possible to spin 3's (or even 1's) off a reasonably sized jump?
For a less theoretical question , those of you that spin FS 3's off large kickers (red or black), have you spun off the toes, does it make you unstable at all? I keep trying to FS3 red kickers from heels and over rotating as I don't spot the landing.
Cheers
Matt |
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