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Paul_D 
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Post subject: Progressing from basic turns to carving
 Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 08:44 AM
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First post: Oct 13, 2009
Total posts: 40
Status: Offline
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Ok.. Although I've not been boarding for a while, I'm at a point where my basic turns (skidded turns I guess) are sorted and I'm confident with riding at speed..
I know everyone will say "get a lesson" and I will probably get another lesson in the future but before I do, I really want to work on improving on my own.. I feel if I were to get a lesson now, I'd not get the most benefit out of it..
I'd like to start turning the board more on edge, phase out the skidding, and perhaps then get a lesson to help me move this more towards proper carving..
I've been reading quite a bit about what carved turns involve, foot pressure, the various phases, weight transfers, etc. I was hoping people on here could give me some pointers of little things to start implementing.. you know - small things to work on one at a time that will help me progress from skidding to being more on edge.. even if I'm trying to do toe to heel and then stopping - and then heel to toe and stopping..
Perhaps I'm being a bit naive thinking that's possible though as I know to get the board on edge more requires a bit more speed and stopping in between turns would clearly be a problem!
Any help or advice would be appreciated 
Thanks in advance. |
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shuck
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Post subject: RE: Progressing from basic turns to carving
Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 10:09 AM
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First post: Aug 20, 2008
Total posts: 207
Location: Middlesbrough
Status: Offline
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bending the knees is the main thing I need to improve on and I'm hoping this will help me carve a bit more easily then my attempts at the minute.
I'm sure someone with a bit more knowledge about this will come along in a minute. |
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philw
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Post subject: RE: Progressing from basic turns to carving
Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 11:48 AM
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First post: Nov 30, 2004
Total posts: 519
Location: uk
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Well, sometimes a good lesson or two would help, but I think that anyone who's going to learn to ride well should have the "I will learn to do this" attitude, which is what I think you're saying you have. The two things don't have to be exclusive.
To me skidding is like skiers snowplough turning: something to get past as quickly as you can.
Personally I'd worry less about those complicated sounding things you mention; although to turn well you have to have them all working, they're in some ways consequences of turning correctly as much as causes of it.
Maybe it depends how you lean, but I'd just concentrate on getting your weight over the edge, weighing both feet pretty evenly, and not torquing the board around. Stick it on edge, hold on for a second, and if the board's the right size for you then it will turn. Once you get the feel for that, the subtleties are easy and come naturally.
Weight transfer for example is never anything I thought about until I realized that in some turns I very slightly shift weight during a carve. I think it would be a mistake to learn how to do that if you're not already carving, if you see what I mean. It's about the last 2% of the issue; the first 98% is about putting the board on edge.
Bending the knees generally helps. Common mistakes include:
- Bending at the waist not the knees. This is often combined with trying to "pat the dog" - reaching out with the hand to touch the snow: don't do it.
- having a stiff "defensive" front leg, pushing your weight too fat back and preventing you from controlling the edge
- sitting on your front leg torquing the back/ sitting on the back leg. Ride centered on the board's reference stance. Any weight shifting (fore-aft) is really minor and should come naturally. |
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject: RE: Progressing from basic turns to carving
Posted: Jan 21, 2011 - 12:56 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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know some ppl laugh at them but try euro-carves to get used to getting the board on an edge and flexing your knees.
get over to 1 side of the slope and carve across it, getting as low to the ground as you can - on toe-edge lean over the board and almost run you hand along the ground, on heel-edge tuck up and grip the board between your bindings like an indy-grab.
Get used to leaning the board over more and how flexing your knees can kinda pop it onto an edge. Once you're used to the feeling of riding on both heel and toe edge then try linking them 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3-s1nXVPYQ
I'm guessing an instructor would teach it differently but that's how i got it going. plus we all love a euro-carve... |
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DrSnowboard
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2011 - 07:50 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 129
Status: Offline
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| Go with Philw's advice, trying to eurocarve if you've not got an aggresive forward stance is likely to put a big twist into your posture, tuck your back knee in and generally ruin your biomechanics...so making it harder. Point stright down the fall line and when you feel you've enough speed either push your balls over your toes to roll onto your toe edge or flow /sink over your heel edge, keeping your shoulders lined up with the board. The board should do the rest. |
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Paul_D
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 08:32 AM
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First post: Oct 13, 2009
Total posts: 40
Status: Offline
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hey everyone.. thank you for taking the time to post some helpful comments.. Philw - that's really good info - thank you.. especially like the "common mistakes" part.. it's useful to know what's wrong as well as what's right...
Incidentally, having spent months searching for decent tutorial type websites that may or may not have video demos I found what I think is the best one out there (or at least the best I've found so far).. there's a sort of 'video menu' on the right-hand side that serves as the best navigation tool for the tutorials:
http://snowprofessor.com/ |
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DrSnowboard
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 04:39 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 129
Status: Offline
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Yup, videos are pretty clear, what they say.
I need to up my qualifications.. |
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mrpugster
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 04:56 PM
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First post: Apr 05, 2009
Total posts: 305
Status: Offline
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2011 - 06:31 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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DrSnowboard - interested by your reply. not questioning it, so don't get me wrong, but how does Euro-carving affect biomechanics and the body's form and more-so than normal carving? I've probably got the wrong idea of Euro-carving, but thought it was just wide carves across the slope and almost turning back up the slope (instead of just roaring down the slope) - thus why i thought it would be easier to learn technique (controllable speed across slope). I "think" you only seem so low to the ground cos you're leaning into the slope by riding across it, instead of down (ok, possibly tuck in a little more to scrape your hand along the snow or grab your board).
only ask 'cos I ride duck and dont seem to notice any difference in my knees or feet when linking carved turns down the slope or wide cuts across the slope. As I said, probably got the completely wrong impression when a Euro-carve is now (apart from ppl taking the piss out of them)... |
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NickE
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 25, 2011 - 04:56 PM
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First post: Sep 18, 2007
Total posts: 127
Status: Offline
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I’m not sure that Eurocarving is a strictly defined term, but I believe it was originally another name for what are called Vitelli turns. This would usually be a toe side carve, with the rider laid out close to the ground with trailing arm outstretched and brushing the snow. The rider is getting close to the ground because the turn is very tight for the speed; not because they’re traversing a steep slope. In fact, Vitelli turns are much harder on steeps.
I think DrSnowboard’s comment relates to the fact that the outstretched rear arm leads to an open upper body position. This can be OK with a forward angled stance. However, with a duck stance, it means twisting your body which is bad for your knees and undermines your carving.
It is also worth noting that the outstretched arm potentially helps the angulation with a forward stance. Getting low means making a tight turn, which requires tilting the board relative to the rider’s body weight. It’s difficult to explain the exact body position for this, but one aspect is that the shoulders should be tipped, so that the inside shoulder (the shoulder on the inside of the turn) is raised. One drill used by riders with this stance is to point up with the inside arm, in a movement that is very similar to the outstretched arm of a Vitelli turn.
Riding with a duck stance, there is no advantage in tipping your shoulders. If anything, reaching forward (whilst on a toe edge) hinders your angulation, because you are shifting body mass in the wrong direction (like leaning forward from the waist). If you watch good duck stance carvers, they will keep their arms in on a toe edge carve and maybe hold the arms slightly forward on a heel edge carve. |
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DrSnowboard
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 25, 2011 - 08:02 PM
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First post: Oct 11, 2004
Total posts: 129
Status: Offline
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| What NickE said.. Unwittingly putting a twist into your posture by reaching for the snow with your back hand, or leaning at the waist to get the hand on the snow is IMHO going to be counter productive. I don't doubt you can carve with a duck stance, you should be able to carve 360 if the snow is good, but it'll likely not be your hand position that is helping. |
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DereksDontRun
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 25, 2011 - 09:39 PM
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First post: Mar 09, 2009
Total posts: 1723
Location: The port of Stock
Status: Offline
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cheers for the replies and understand what you're getting at.
when carving down the slope I try to keep shoulders in line with board, when either doing wide carves or cross-under/dynamic? (keeping body and head almost straight-lining but pumping legs from edge to edge under you). I'm off next week and will spend some time trying to think of my technique (always tricky when sat at a desk) and watch how scruffy my trail is. No doubt I'll be shocked...
Suggested that euro-carve as a wide arc across the slope, thinking it would be a slower/less-scary way to getting used to leaning the board over on an edge, and by focussing on touching snow you realize how much more you should bend your knees - but can now understand how it would separate the torso from the legs. Cheers for the advice guys. |
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