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meinemonkey 
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Post subject: teaching methods
 Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 04:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 06, 2008
Posts: 2
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Ok so this is bugging me loads at the moment.
I have been on 3 boarding holidays and had lessons in each of the different countries (from so called award winning ski schools) - Ive been taught to turn using my shoulders, pointing across the slope, then down the slope and then back across to level out.
From everything Ive seen and read though, I shouldnt be initiating any movement using my upper body, it should be through the feet and the flex in the board. I feel somehow at the moment its all a big gamble everytime I hit the fall-line as to whether or not I make it through to complete the turn.
Basically, have I been ripped off royally and been taught bad technique from the start?
I havent progressed one little bit since my first holiday and im getting fed up with it.
Am due to go away again soon so I bought a book/dvd which I saw recommended somewhere and it kind of backs up my belief that Im still crap for a very good reason!
Has anybody else been taught to turn using shoulders??
Any other thoughts on this that might help me feel in control of the damned thing would be appreciated.
Cheers |
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alexx37
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Post subject: RE: teaching methods
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 04:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 3459
Location: Liverpool
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| Your shoulders should always be parrallel to the snowboard but you shouldn't be using your feet to throw the board out from under you to help you turn, although alot of people do this, its bad technique.. |
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dunx
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Post subject: RE: teaching methods
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 04:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 07, 2004
Posts: 5448
Location: Herts, UK
Status: Offline
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You have been taught how I was taught many years ago and people who teach this method are after a quick return - I could confidently link turns after 90 minutes. It's fundamentally wrong as you're scuffing your board through turns and not actually using the radius of the board. You will not progress and will find that out as soon as you decide to start jumping and wonder why you keep trying to pull 90s!
With a little "back to basics" you can soon get out of this bad habit. It's not all over yet  |
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T'inmypants
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 05:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 68
Location: uk
Status: Offline
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Try http://www.snowboardcoach.co.uk
Ash does coaching for all levels at the UK snowdomes. You'll learn how to ride your board properly (ie using foot steering), if you do a search on here you'll find aload of positive reviews about the courses. |
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Tomahawk
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 07, 2008 - 07:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 1742
Location: Bath/leeds/Canada
Status: Offline
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there diffenrt mthods
casi the canadian teach upper body initiateds turns at lower lef=vels then moves on to use more lower leg stering in higher levels.
theres many ways to cook an egg. |
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PantsDown
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 07, 2008 - 09:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2008
Posts: 44
Status: Offline
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Check out Neil McNabs book.... Go Snowboard, very good value and teaches the "proper way" imho lol It was the way I was taught at MK in Boarding in a day.....
Laters
Patrick |
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yellowlala
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 - 09:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 12, 2007
Posts: 1035
Status: Offline
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You haven't been ripped off. Different countries teach different methods and upper body rotation is common in many european, canadian and kiwi resorts. In this country Basi have made great strides to teach a method called foot steering, this uses the torsional flex in your board and allows you to make turns with minimal effort. Over here we consider it the most efficient way to turn your board as you're using minimal energy to initiate your turn and you're making your board work the way it should.
Before you go away next perhaps consider doing a board in a day course (if you're still not linking your turns) or if you hve your basic side slipping ok then go for a 3hr level 3+4 group lesson at one of the snowdomes. To really enjoy a holiday I think it's better to have learnt your basic skills here and contact schools abroad for Basi qualified coaches, that way you will have continuity and can get straight out on the blues and greens with your coach when abroad.
For cheap thrills check www.methodsnowschool.com Ash Newnes and his crew will have you up and running in no time at all and Bulgaria is cheap, cheap, cheap. As has been mentioned www.snowboardcoach.co.uk is also Ash' site and when he's back in the UK his courses are worth every penny. |
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yakboy
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 10, 2008 - 03:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 245
Location: North Yorkshire
Status: Offline
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| After snowboarding for 4 years then doing the Mcnab course I can say go the Mcnab way (the four point exploding heart technique !!) No honestly this is the way to go because when you feel it working you know it is the way to go...I have been taught many different methods by many different people and this is the only one I feel should be taught and last tip....Widen your stance and as Pants down says ...Go BUY "Go Snowboard" ASAP |
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adam_2005
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 04:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 783
Location: Manchester
Status: Offline
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In Canada they teach you to "anticipate" the turn by dipping your leading shoulder when turning from heal edge to toe edge, and it's not just for beginners, they teach it all the way up to advanced bumpy steep riding.
There are slightly different techniques shown depending on where you learn, I think the best advice would be to try out as much of them as you can and go with what you feel most comfortable with. Don't get too hung up on the "correct" technique, because if it's being taught somewhere, then chances are it's not "bad" technique. You'll probably find the same as I found, different technique works for different conditions.
Personally, I've never really bought into the idea that moving your shoulders is a totally bad thing - as long as you twist into the turn (rather than counter-rotating) then it can help to speed up the turn when in steep or rough slopes and it doesn't throw you off your rytham or balance. I'd like to see someone get down a very steep bumpy slope using foot steering and nothing else. |
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muz_topbanana
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 09:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 26, 2008
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you turn using your shoulders you will reach a plateau and will struggle to progress further _ I know this through my own experience.
try turning on almost flat snow to get the flex right as this stops you being able to use your shoulders the it becomes second nature
Also try turning with your hands on your knees ..... |
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charliebuoy
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 09:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 5153
Location: York
Status: Offline
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muz_topbanana wrote:
you turn using your shoulders you will reach a plateau and will struggle to progress further _ I know this through my own experience.
No you won't. That's the way i was taught and that's the way i was taught to teach (in Canada). I've found that I've naturally developed the pedalling technique along with turning shoulders to initiate the turn. I will say that it's probably easy to progress past your 'plateau' with the straight up foot pedalling, but you'll progress with the other technique as well - just with more snow time. |
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Jeff-Pelling
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 11:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 347
Location: Fernie, BC
Status: Offline
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I don't think you've been ripped, but it can be confusing when you go from resort to resort / country to country and each has a slightly different approach and what you dutifully did for one is frowned on in another.
For what it's worth, I agree with charliebouy: my riding's been through the CASI wringer this season, but for me it's coming down to snow time and recognising that with different terrain/conditions I need to adapt what I'm doing to get the most out of the snowboard and have fun. |
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Tiberius
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 11:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 17, 2004
Posts: 8236
Location: 10 mins from Cas
Status: Offline
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People were taught that way for years and turned out ok...in fact I bet Terje was taught to twist his shoulders...or point where he wanted to go, another old favorite.
However you learn, a snowboard turns through being twisted. The main point here is that these methods work because they cause you to flex the board, that's all, there's no magic. Try it one time, turn your shoulders one way, but intentionally twist the board the other way with your feet and see which way you turn.
Most modern teaching methods do away with the twisting of the shoulders for reasons stated above. It's a bit hit and miss and can lead to a plateau if you're not carefull...but as charlie says, practice and you will progress. |
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philw
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2008 - 09:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 30, 2004
Posts: 235
Location: uk
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Tiberius wrote:
However you learn, a snowboard turns through being twisted. The main point here is that these methods work because they cause you to flex the board, that's all, there's no magic. Try it one time, turn your shoulders one way, but intentionally twist the board the other way with your feet and see which way you turn.
Um, powder boards turn by being banked in the snow (so they have design features such as taper); piste boards by being put on edge (hence they have sidecut and flex is critical). I think you can probably initiate a turn on a very soft board by twisting it, but that's about all. Once you get a feel for the mechanics of the board you'll just stick it on edge; the rest follows. |
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Kip27
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Post subject: Just a few thoughs on Pivoting vs Steering
Posted: May 24, 2008 - 10:01 AM
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Joined: Oct 08, 2006
Posts: 1
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Totally depends upon what type and level of turns you are working on.
Basic beginner turns will require you to initiate the movement with your upper body (anticipation looking in the direction you want to turn, place some wieght on your leading foot and follow with a gross upper body rotation) by doing this the lower body will naturally follow and the board will turn. You'll find you get a lot of wash out and board performance is low but it's the simplest way to start out.
To maximise performance in intermediate sliding turns there are a number of excercises you can practice which involve both pivoting AND steering. You may find that in Canada (or New Zealand) piviting skills are tought more frequently as counter rotation is often a stumbling block for intermediate riders and basic alignment over the board is essential if you want to link turns with fluidity (think 'motorboat', 'crossing the X' or 'teapot' for steeper terrain). Steering may be taught in isolation or alongside rotation and at this level you should be steering with the knees and feet (think 'headlight on knee' and 'twist the disks'). Pedalling is harder to coordinate and should be reserved for more advanced riding (in my humble opinion and I have to admit that I'm CASI all the way).
Beginner carved turns are a different matter altogether. Rolling form edge to edge requires you to incline your body weight over the edge you want to roll onto. Try 'pouring water out of your boots' to gently steer the board using a lateral movement with your feet.
When you start to work on intermediate carved turns you should start to steer with knees and feet to get the board on edge earlier (headlight on knees again and twisting the disks), though some upper body rotation is required it is more subtle and should be almost in synch with lower body steering at this stage.
So what you were taught will depend upon where you were in the world, your skill level, what type of turns you were working on and what your instructor identified as an area you needed to work on at the time (can't comment on the quality of instruction though). What works for one person may not work for another, we all have different learning styles and will take to certain methods of instruction more than others. My suggestion is that you take lessons wherever you go, pick and choose the techniques you DO find to be useful and practice them in your own riding ... a LOT. Bear in mind that it is often that which we really need to work on which we find the hardest or least enjoyable to practice!!! Also, there WILL be times when you reach a plateau but with a little mileage it will all come together (they say that it takes 1000 turns practice for a techique to become second nature!!!).
Hope you work it all out and don't give up on the lessons!!!
p.s. Please don't try riding with your hands on your knees as suggested in an earlier post. All this will do is cause you to break at the waist and knock you out of alignment. You will find heel edge turns difficult and look stupid too!  |
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