Snowboard Club UK (SCUK) :: View topic - Bindings - can you REALLY tell the difference between them?

Snowboard Club UK (SCUK)

Equipment and Media - Bindings - can you REALLY tell the difference between them?

thief - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:09 AM
Post subject: Bindings - can you REALLY tell the difference between them?

I think bindings are one of the bits of gear that people get too hung up about

For a start, what a rip off for what is essentially just moulded plastic. Secondly, I don't think people can honestly tell the difference between them

Certainly not by people who are just fun riders, maybe the top pros can tell, but not your average Joe public

Just go out and buy a pair of bindings and stop trying to think they're going to make much of a difference, they're not.

Asking if one pair is better than the other is a waste of time for us none pros

adam_2005 - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:31 AM
Post subject: RE: Bindings - can you REALLY tell the difference between th

I'd say that's a good rule to apply to a snowboard as well. As long as you've got the correct size, it doesn't matter as an average rider.

The better I get at snowboarding, the cheaper the board I've ended up using. My board is a forum Reckon which was £140, and there's nothing wrong with it.

I can tell the difference with bindings, due to weight and stiffness affecting how quickly I can manipulate the board. Plus the better bindings have more adjustment options.

I agree that beginners / intermediates can't tell the difference in bindings, but that's because they generally ride in such a way that doesn't take advantage of the equipment's design. For instance, if you ride down the hill using your upper body to turn (75% of snowboarders I see do this) then it pretty much doesn't matter if you're lashed to the board with duct tape. Whereas is you learn to ride using you're lower body joints, then the bindings will affect the board's performance to a greater degree.

i82q - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:36 AM
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all i look for is solid, strong, reliable....really dont want a broken ratchet at top of the groomer..

kieren24 - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:56 AM
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Agree and disagree...

I'd say comfy bindings that don't feel dead are the key... Union, most Burton, Rome and Ride... but I can tell the difference between good bindings and bad ones... If you foot pedal hard and try and carve you'll struggle with some soft binders, likewise if you are trying to jib with some Alphas... or I do anyway.

nickmotture - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:57 AM
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bindings are the least important bit of kit but getting the right one is still important. Some are really stiff some are floppy as hell, get a realy stiff one as a begginer and youre likely to end up on your ass all the time as you have to turn more aggresively. Equally if you get a binding thats really soft and offers no support then you wont feel in control of the board when going fast. Its like driving a car with a really high bitting point on the clutch, anyone can drive it once their used to it but you have to move your foot further inorder for the car to follow, theres more room for error so its not as jerky but you'l also find it hard to pull off quicker as you can move your foot miles without it doing anything. A really stiff responsive binding is hard to ride as a begginer as every little movement and wobble you make will be transfered to the board and can make it move in ways you hadnt intended. Once youre to a certain level you can ride any binding or board happily but when learning some will hinder your progess. Most important is getting one thats not too stiff for your standard and riding style and one that fits your boot well.

charlie - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:17 AM
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Is there a key that looks like this on your keyboard Nick?

There is a difference between bindings, the obvious difference is how stiff they are but then there's adjustability, comfort, how well your boots fit into them, etc, etc.

I think the most important aspect is like boots, comfort. Things like the footbed, straps and forward lean adjustment have an impact.

Second most important is how stiff they are. You're probably not wrong when you say that Joe Public doesn't know the difference between the majority of bindings, that's because the majority of bindings are medium stiffness. Stick a beginner in a pair of very stiff bindings and they really won't be having fun.

Personally I like fairly soft bindings, I don't mind sacrificing a bit of carving performance in order to make it easier for freestyle in general.

ColdComfort - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:15 AM
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Its common knowledge that your riding ability is inversely proportional to the age of your bindings - if u haven't spent £200 on this seasons fluro-tastic jib stomper pros then obviously u will be laughed out of the park / dome / back country / bar although u can compensate a little for some of this lost ability with a rad sticker job...

Oh and to add to what the others said - Reliability and weight are a big issue too - I have snapped 2 toe straps on a single day on shockingly poor salomon bindings last year not what u need to see half way down a mountain at -30

charlie - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:30 AM
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I think there's a big difference in quality across the range for Salomon bindings. I have a pair of Relays and they've been absolutely fine. Best bindings I've had were a pair of '04 Burton Missions, absolutely bomb proof.

227angrydonkeys - Sep 08, 2010 - 12:04 PM
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i reckon bindings are like skateboard trucks. you cna ride any of them , but you know when you find a pair that suits you, i feel alkward in some bindings, like theyre kinda fighting against my legs but some just feel nice, like i dont notice theyre there. none of it has ever made a difference to what i can actually do or not though. you cna either do it or you cant and some brand new bindings arent gonig to make the difference as much as spending that money going riding.

SquishyBG - Sep 08, 2010 - 12:14 PM
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I certainly noticed a difference between the ones that had a definite "fisher price rollerskate" quality to them on the rental when I was learning and my first purchased pair. But that was all down to comfort, I finally found I could feel my toes as the blood supply wasn't being chopped off by the plain plastic toe strap! I also know that on the whole I prefer men's bindings because the highback tends to be bigger and I can notice the difference on my heel edge. All the tech means precious little to me, it's all about comfort and boot fit.

nickmotture - Sep 08, 2010 - 01:04 PM
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[quote="charliebuoy"]Is there a key that looks like this on your keyboard Nick?

Sorry Charles damn iPhone makes it hard to see what youve written to format it.

R1ch - Sep 08, 2010 - 02:09 PM
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With boards, it's obvious how they ride differently and that's a given.

With boots, you want ones that fit you well above everything else. Then it's down to personal preference whether you want a responsive boot, which is stiffer, or a more freestyle boot which tends to be softer with more lateral flex.

As for bindings, I think they've reached a stage where anywhere in the main range from a decent manufacturer, you can't really go wrong with.

Obviously the cheapest, beginner type bindings are going to be too soft for most riders, but then I'd also imagine that not many people use those for very long.

I think we've actually seen a move away from really stiff, freeride orientated bindings. I seem to remember about 5 years back, Burton had quite a few different stiff bindings. I think it was the C60, which still exists that sat at the top of the stiffness scale, even with a full carbon fibre model at one stage.

I don't think too many people are opting for the stiffest bindings anymore, so they clearly aren't bothering to make them so much.

It's for that reason that you can buy a binding anywhere in the mid-range of most manufacturers and ride anything with it really.

They key noticeable difference more than anything I'd say is between plastic and metal bindings, as you can feel the change in weight and also you get more flex in plastic based bindings.

It's then more down to what you personally prefer and also another factor is warranty... as obviously if something fails, how easy is it to walk into a resort shop and them give you the piece to fix it straight away?

I notice people are really harping on about Union Bindings lately, but ultimately, they aren't going to make you a better rider than using a similar binding from a rival. They've just become the flavor of the month through, marketing, promoting 'core', a good team and hype.

eldi - Sep 08, 2010 - 02:40 PM
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R1ch wrote:

It's then more down to what you personally prefer and also another factor is warranty... as obviously if something fails, how easy is it to walk into a resort shop and them give you the piece to fix it straight away?

Exactly why i am still riding some burton missions from a few years back - the spare parts are soo easy to come by and usually given to you for free or perhaps for a couple of euros/dollars. I have found its mainly ratchets and ladder straps i have needed

charlie - Sep 08, 2010 - 02:44 PM
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[quote="nickmotture"]

charliebuoy wrote:

Is there a key that looks like this on your keyboard Nick?

Sorry Charles damn iPhone makes it hard to see what youve written to format it.

HandD - Sep 08, 2010 - 03:33 PM
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sorry can't be botehred to read all the rubbish on some threads, but you can tell the differnce between bindings and borads. If you buy crap expect to get crap unresponsive stuff. Buy high end bindings or board that you're not ready for and expect some hard work, but kit you're too good for expect to have some great laughs

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 07:30 PM
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R1ch wrote:

I notice people are really harping on about Union Bindings lately, but ultimately, they aren't going to make you a better rider than using a similar binding from a rival. They've just become the flavor of the month through, marketing, promoting 'core', a good team and hype.

I work for TRL who distribute Union, and they do have whole load of tech that you dont get in any other bindings, which is all aimed at comfort which is why people are getting onto them in a big way once theyve ridden in them.

Basically the base plate isnt flat, so you dont get a flat spot on the board like you do when you bolt every other binding to a board.

For example on the FORCE only 10% of the base plate actually touches the board, which is around the disc and two bars either side, the rest is molded EVA which in short means the board can flex under youre foot, which for reverse camber boards is ideal as the board can flex evenly through the whole board, it also makes it super comfortable and forgiving. If you’ve got a pair of Forces turn them over and pull off the plastic cover and take out the EVA dampeners and look down the binding and you will see what touches the board.

Secondly which is a first I believe, (someone can tell me im wrong if they know better)

Union manufacture their bindings with different density per size, which means that if youre a small kid riding a S/M binding you will get the same flex from the binding as if you was a big guy riding an L/XL, which is really key for things like product reviews, as an example if you’ve got another brands binding with a metal base plate it can only be one density through the sizes, so ‘little timmy’ will find it stiff but ‘big barry’ will find it flexes more so reviews are really varied sometimes.

The specs are like this for Union, which make reviews a bit more acurate but also means if youre a bigger guy you can take bigger hits, and the reason all bindings come with a lifetime warranty on their bases

Size S/M Du Pont Zytel with 3 % fiberglass,
Dampened EVA is 45 Durometer

Size M/L Du Pont Zytel with 7 % fiberglass (or carbon on some models) Dampened EVA is 55 Durometer

Size L/XL Du Pont Zytel with 14 % fiberglass (or carbon on some models) Dampened EVA is 65 Durometer

If youre at any of the TSA BANGS come over and ill dig out our sales cut outs of the bindings and show you what Union is all about.

Sorry if that sounded a bit like NO YOURE WRONG ! it wasn’t meant like that just trying to add some usefull info to the post.

R1ch - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:17 PM
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I don't want to sound like a complete c*** but you promote Union in every single post you make on here, so it's got to be taken with a pinch of salt I'm afraid.

Everything you've just said above is exactly the same kind of stuff that every other manufacturer will say about their product as to why it's better also.

I'm sure Unions are great bindings... but I see no reason why they are necessarily better than anything else by a decent manufacturer. Burton has also had the lifetime warranty for years, so that's nothing new.

One thing I will criticize though is the whole curved baseplate thing, or banana baseplates or whatever it was that people were calling them last year. I tried some bindings out back in Spring and the rep was keen to 'big up' the difference and how much better they were. Personally, myself and a friend who tried them found they were no different in feeling to any normal flat baseplate binding.

It strikes me as being another one of those 'innovations' in snowboard design that's marketed as one, even though it's not really and it's just being pushed for sales off the back of reverse camber technology.

"Hey, I see you got yourself a banana board! You know, you really should get some banana bindings!"

thief - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:35 PM
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I'm laughing at the Union sale rep in full sales mode, you should get a bonus for your efforts

It seems to me that each snowboard manufacturer is bringing out new technology, almost all of it isn't required or is just bullshit. They are bringing out new stuff because it's expected, so they feel they must or will be seen to be falling behind, the trouble is every new thing has pretty much been developed by now, so there is nothing useful left for them to bring out each new year.... so they end up bring out stuff that sounds great, but is just bullshit and means nothing, doesn't work and isn't needed.

think about this...... this years Union bindings are sh1t, why do i know that? because next year they'll bring out better ones that they'll want you to buy, so why buy this years ones and then have to splash out on the better ones next year?

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:55 PM
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I know everyone has their own opinions, and its my job to push Union and rather than just push it I like to try and explain why I push it rather than just saying its good, I actually work for 6 snowboard brands, but Union is the one that is the most impressive from what I ve seen over the years ive been riding.

But it isnt meant to offend, so I will cut it out on these forums for a bit so you dont get too upset with it.

But seriously if you do get chance give them a try and see what you think and I think you will feel the difference, it is a whole different design which makes the board work differently rather than the binding perform differently.

The reason why the companies have to move on each season and especially in bindings over the next few seasons, is because of reverse camber and how its changed how the board manufacturers now make their boards, I still ride camber and have done for years and I dont really like the new reverse camber boards, but reverse is here in a big way and to stay.

So the tech for everything else is almost playing catch up to suit. Union is just a head of its time on the binding change, and next season you will see more from Burton on their flexi disc, and other binding manufacturers will follow suit with similar tech just a bit different to avoid the pattents.

milky228 - Sep 08, 2010 - 08:55 PM
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well said thief wait what??

R1ch - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:25 PM
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oneloveofboardsports wrote:

The reason why the companies have to move on each season and especially in bindings over the next few seasons, is because of reverse camber and how its changed how the board manufacturers now make their boards, I still ride camber and have done for years and I dont really like the new reverse camber boards, but reverse is here in a big way and to stay.

Reverse camber boards ride perfectly fine with normal bindings though, and as I pointed out, I found no difference with the bendy binding baseplates.

Binding manufacturers for years have been bringing out something new in terms of being lighter than last year, or adding a new mounting system like Burton likes to do.

The bendy binding baseplate thing, like I said is purely just an attempt to sell people new bindings off the back of the explosion in reverse camber boards.

J_Smith - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:34 PM
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for sure i totally agree - we have all ridden hire boards at some point.

Board's and bindings have, over time changed - whether you can tell the difference between a £140 pair of new Missions compared to a £210 pair of Triads i have no idea, but there is defiantly something in it.

i went from a solid pair of 08 Missions that were like a gun, to a pair of Auto Evers that are more like a prototype gadget - they work perfectly, but i keep getting the feeling they are not 'complete'

Go with whatever you feel is right Smile

thief - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:36 PM
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every manufacturer brings out new stuff each year simply because they have to

it's change for change sake, not because it's needed or better... but they flog it to you on the grounds of it being needed and being better

nickmotture - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:40 PM
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I rode Union Forces all last season and didnt even know they had this new fangled space age flexi baseplate. Nice bindings but i can't say i noticed anything of the sort.

thief - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:41 PM
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question for the Union sales rep...

If i buy some Union bindings this year, are they good enough to last me for the next 4 or 5 years? meaning that i don't buy the better ones you'll bring out next year, and the ones you'll bring out the year after.

or... would you like me to buy some this year, and then buy some new ones with all your newly invented technology next year?

and... are you on commission?

winterfunman - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:48 PM
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Its all horses for courses , so ppl ride new boards or binding as say woooow i felt the difference ...but nearly 85% wont .

Good riders may , but joe average doesnt .
Not disihing his sales pitch , but most wont notice the difference.
I get this nearly every day , even when pplk drive say a Ferrari 360 back to back with a 430 ....... unless you CAN drive , you wont notice or appreciate the subtle changes they made .

But as with Ferrari and Unions you are paying for a NAME

J_Smith - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:49 PM
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theif, i think you are being a prat - i understand where you are coming from, but afterall, these are companies and people are always coming to the sport.

If you have some bindings that are a few years old, you may want to upgrade and companies come up with (occasionally pointless) new tech to get stock off shelves.

To say what you have been saying makes you look like you have your head up your arse - just because you dont want to get new bindings every year doesnt mean that others wont?

People replace things all the time and they are totally at their will to do that, why do you always try to take the tone of someone who is above everyone?

I really admire your sense of humour, but you dont have say some really arrogant things

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:57 PM
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No I dont get commision, I work self employed for different companies for different sales and marketing roles and I get paid a set rate regardless of sales, but it is still in my interest to promote sales as ive been around the industry for while and I know alot of my accounts personally and ride with most of them.

So I like to know the products I sell to them get sell through, but same goes for sh1t product, if I had a sh1t product in the range I wouldnt let them buy it and would push them onto another.

To be honest I think ive just do nothing but work and live around the snowboard industry for so long its hard not to talk about it all the time, trust me ask my mrs she hates it !

The Union Force was the original binding when Union launched 6 years ago, and its only had a handfull of tweaks, but the design is the virtually the same.

4-5 years obviously depends on use and wear, but if you rode a new pair of forces from 4 years ago the tech in the base is the same.

If i sound like im being a nob answering these, trust me im not meaning to be like that, but im cool to keep answering questions if you want to know stuff

dashie - Sep 08, 2010 - 09:57 PM
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I cant really tell that theres minimum contact area on the forces either, they are super comfy and when set up properly are really nice responsive ride. Could tell the difference when I rode them and my old salomon relays.

iggie - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:32 PM
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So, oneloveofboardsports guy ... given that I would actually love to try some new Union bindings, can you answer my question from this thread?

At the Big Bang dooooos are you guys actually gonna be carrying some high end girls bindings for me to try or am I gonna waste my time driving up to Tam / across to MK??

I'm currently riding Escapades from a couple of years back so which Union girls bindings would you recommend?

Would I feel a difference to the Escapades or should I save myself best part of £200 and stick with what I've got?

Huh? What?

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:40 PM
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Yeah, I think its almost like wearing a sh1t pair of gola shoes then buying something like a pair of nike air max or what ever they call them now.

There will be loads of tech differences and different materials in the two shoes, and you like to know they have all them tech bits when you buy them, but you cant feel all the individual parts to the tech they put into them, you just feel that their alot comfier and easier to wear when doing what their made for, and I think if Unions are a bit like that.

iggie - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:45 PM
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^^
... and will there be any girls ones I can try at any of the Big Bangs days??? C'mon how hard is this question?? Speechless

R1ch - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:56 PM
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oneloveofboardsports wrote:

We are just going over the same ground again though.

You can have just as comfy feeling and same standard of riding in a pair of Burton, Salomon, Ride, Rome etc.... (except Flow! Razz

)

Unions are no different and won't make your riding any better than any other decent set of bindings.

Your analogy above only works if you are comparing it to entry level cheap or old bindings. If you compare the Union Forces with the equivalent priced binding from another manufacturer, they are going to be largely the same.

nickmotture - Sep 08, 2010 - 10:58 PM
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to be fair youre guessing there dude

mh8701 - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:38 PM
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I agree with some of what you say but also think your being very generic with your comments.

I have rode with allot of different bindings and the all WORKED but i can honestly say i have felt differences in performance and comfort. Recenty I rode Cartels and they gave me allot of foot and calf pain. I switched over to Ride Betas after testing some and the pain was gone. The only problem i had with them was durability, i was constantly in touch with ride for parts. Tired a pair of my friends union forces two years back and liked them, when i seen the condition they were still in now then i knew union were not lying about there bomproofness so decided to pick some up this year.

So can you tell the difference between bindings. YES, some will suit you more than others. Weather that be boot shape, size, highback height, riding style or amount of forward lean.

Some will be more durable!

And maybe some will just look nice or be "cool"

But why do you really care so much. As long as the buyers happy then why is it your problem?

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:39 PM
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iggie wrote:

^^
... and will there be any girls ones I can try at any of the Big Bangs days??? C'mon how hard is this question?? Speechless

Hi Iggie,

I did reply on the other post, 2 milans, 2 trilogies in the demo kit, let me know which one of the bangs you will be at and what size boot and I will make sure we have some to fit

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:50 PM
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I think that everyone has their own preference and binding that they like and as long as that makes you feel good when riding, then thats all the matters, and if its Union then that good for me,

But I think almost everyone agrees on [quote="R1ch] (except Flow! Razz

)[/quote]

thief - Sep 08, 2010 - 11:50 PM
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Why are the Union bindings better than Burton cartels?

Jacey - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:08 AM
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This thread is bonkers!

I can't believe it's being claimed that only "top" riders can tell the difference between bindings??

I'd class myself as just an intermediate and I can definitely tell the difference between the bindings I've tried. I might not be able to give it the technical explanation for why I like or dislike about them like a trained sales person but I can "REALLY tell the difference between them". I've found some too soft and unresponsive, some were too hard which made me have to work too hard and others felt fine at first but after a long day's riding they just weren't that comfy. Oh and some just made my board heavier to carry than it needed to be. Wink

I don't think it's about all brand or price, but it is important to me to buy quality, so often that means some brands over others and not getting the entry level stuff.

But my biggest surprise in this thread is the dislike of snowboard brands' continual innovation and bringing out new stuff each year. I LOVE that! I like to understand the new tech that's available and how it might or might not be better than what's come before. I can't wait for the Whitelines Buyers Guide to come out and I'm not even planning to get any new kit this year! I'd be gutted if year after year there was just the same old stuff to choose from.

mh8701 - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:08 AM
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There not "better" its preference.

2008 cartels are the worst bindings ive had over the past 5 or so years for both my comfort and durability

thief - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:10 AM
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i wanted the union rep to tell me why the unions are better

BartSimpsonhead - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:11 AM
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thief wrote:

Why are the Union bindings better than Burton cartels?

The answer to that question's rather subjective - one person would say there's no difference, another might say there's a huge difference. It all depends on personal preference and what experience they've had with either Burton or Union bindings.

Personally I like a firm responsive binding and found the two pairs of Burton's I've had in the past to be a bit to 'vague' (Missions and P1s), while love my Ride Beta's and Union Contacts (maybe it's the aluminium chassis as opposed to Burtons plastic?)
Really it's just a case of trying some out and finding what you like the feel of...

165 - Sep 09, 2010 - 01:46 AM
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Oneloveof bs,
Can you tell us who else you are working for,other hardgood products?.
I think you, are of benefit here to people with Union bindings, advise help etc its a positive thing, some help.
As for sales product features, its debatable, time will tell,that stuff is every season, every binding outfit.You pay your money with new Ideas/features, take your chances.

thief - Sep 09, 2010 - 07:15 AM
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I read about the first 5 lines of that and then gave up

oneloveofboardsports - Sep 09, 2010 - 08:37 AM
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Hey 165,

Hard goods at the moment I work for Capita, Deeluxe and Union, along with softgoods Coal, Advita, Landing, Burn doing a bit with Transform Gloves this season and a bunch of other stuff outside the industry.

The reason why I like to be active on here, is from this side of the industry there is so much marketing and tech training, videos, imagery, even the brochures have so much detailed info in them that we use to sell products into retailers. I came into this with a strong sales background out of the industry, and my first sales in the industry was with Quiksilver and I was amazed that they put so much effort and expense into making marketing videos to show their staff and the shops, that then didn’t get shown to the public.

All this tech info in the industry starts at the brands, comes to the reps/distributors and is passed onto the stores, it’s then left up to the store guys to explain the tech to their customers which most do really well. But a shop guy in a store can’t explain all the tech in every binding, board, boot in as much detail as the reps.

So my theory is if I give everyone on here all the info you need for the tech specs of the Union and Capita range’s this season, you can go into the store with an advantage and know a little bit more about what you’re spending you’re well earned cash on.

Even if you don’t want to buy Union this season, but read the posts you will know more about Union tech than any of the other bindings on the shelf this season, and if at some point you do want Union you know what to expect.

I think the brands/distributors should do more on the forums, not as in spamming every post, but be on here for technical and advice issues, and basically just share all the info we get told before we sell the range into shops so you then know how to compare products before you buy them.

Hey Theif if you’ve read my previous replies on this post you will know about Forces for this season, I’m not up on Burtons range and so I can’t really tell you what’s good or bad about Cartels and how they compare I can just tell you what’s good about Union. If youre near a TSA store they will have demo cartels and forces in so nip in a test a pair of each.

iggie - Sep 09, 2010 - 08:45 AM
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oneloveofboardsports wrote:

I did reply on the other post, 2 milans, 2 trilogies in the demo kit, let me know which one of the bangs you will be at and what size boot and I will make sure we have some to fit

Cheers, I must have post blindness Embarassed

I'm not sure which Bang I'll be going to, depends on friends preferences at the moment. I'll let you know as soon as I do. I have size 4.5 Salomon boots so pretty small Smile

thief - Sep 09, 2010 - 09:39 AM
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Relentless, just totally relentless!!!

You're the Duracell bunny of the snowboard sales world

nickmotture - Sep 09, 2010 - 09:53 AM
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Theif you asked a question and he answered it. If you dont want the guy to go on about them then stop asking bloody questions about them.

You simple do this to antagonise people to make yourself feel superior dont you.

MattR - Sep 09, 2010 - 10:21 AM
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nickmotture wrote:

Theif you asked a question and he answered it.

to be fair, he didn't "answer" the question. Just regurgitated what reads like a load of marketing literature. But thats what the industry is about, well, any industry that essentially sells toys. This years is 12.4% better than last years cos we've infused the product with 4.63% snake oil........ Wink

What it really means is its a little bit better than last year, but we'll charge you more cos we've changed the colour and the packaging.

nickmotture wrote:

You simple do this to antagonise people to make yourself feel superior dont you.

Yes, he does. Some people have little or nothing better to do.

nickmotture - Sep 09, 2010 - 10:32 AM
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He was asked they were better than buttons and said he couldnt answer that as he didn't know the burton range well, which I think is a very good answer! Every rep I know is enthusiastic about their product and will talk about it till the cows come home if you keep asking questions, they wouldn't have a job for long if they weren't.

dashie - Sep 09, 2010 - 10:34 AM
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I dont see the problem with marketing literature, Ian believes in the brand he's repping thats all.

You cant ask a question about telling the difference between bindings and not expect some tech answers.

robtheslob - Sep 09, 2010 - 10:42 AM
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in my opinion,

Unions have better straps than forum cartels - in comfort and how well they hold you in,
Unions better underfoot padding than cartels,
Unions dont have the most tallest, most unnecessary calf-burn-giving-after-one-run highbacks,
Unions are far more durable than cartels,
Unions are lighter than cartels.

That is why I had my cartels less than 6 months, and am still using the forces that I bought to replace them 2 and half years ago.

Theif, go to the big bang tour and demo both and then, when hopefully you have a fully informed opinion, see if you feel the same way.

R1ch - Sep 09, 2010 - 11:12 AM
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You aren't going to be able to test a binding to destruction in a couple of runs though.

As I've already said now, every decent binding manufacturer makes a well featured, comfy binding that rides well. Which one you buy is all down to personal preference... whether it be the brand and its marketing, the colour and appearance, the fact that it fits your boots better etc.

Most people won't try out the bindings they buy before they buy them and even more so, people are unlikely to try out a large range of bindings. As OneLoves post shows, he has no idea about Burton's range... thus you can say his view is very biased as he can't compare what it's like to a rivals, which might even be better for some people.

If you want evidence of why Union has been so successful recently, OneLove is clearly part of that equation. Every time somebody asks for bindings recommendations, he chirps in with Union recommendations, which people then hear about positively and reinforces their decision to buy them... If they have other reps doing this on other forums, it's free marketing for them.

Personally in all the bindings I've owned the main differences I'd really attribute are the following:

- Weight of plastic vs metal bindings.
- The size of the highback makes a big difference.

The rest all tend to be small tech things like comfy straps, ratchets, cap straps, tool-less adjustment, spongy footbeds etc.. all the manufacturers have their own versions of these.

I think most people don't have much of an issue until bindings go wrong, it's only then that you might consider switching to another manufacturer.

nickmotture - Sep 09, 2010 - 11:30 AM
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You've said weight of plastic vs metal several times by which i presume you mean plastic is lighter? Odd that two of the Ride range are the lightest binding on the market then.

R1ch - Sep 09, 2010 - 11:39 AM
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Well maybe that's the exception to the rule, but generally that is the case.

Also though, metal bindings tend to be much more robust... I've certainly never snapped a metal binding. As I said before, there is a bit more flex in plastic bindings too.

nickmotture - Sep 09, 2010 - 11:57 AM
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Yeah Alphas are (or at least were) the lightest binding made by far. But yeah bloody stiff.

thief - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:43 PM
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Are union any good then?

BartSimpsonhead - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:50 PM
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robtheslob wrote:

Theif, go to the big bang tour and demo both and then, when hopefully you have a fully informed opinion, see if you feel the same way.

Rob's right - take your own board, boots and bindings along, have a few runs on your regular setup to get a feel of the slope, then ask at stands to demo a few sets of bindings on your board for a few runs and see if/how you can tell the difference between them - you won't really get much the same feel for them as riding on a mountain, but you should feel some differences.

R1ch - Sep 09, 2010 - 12:53 PM
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thief wrote:

Are union any good then?

You are just fishing now! Laughing

I'm not a Union Rep, but check out some of the names for these crazy technologies, which is why they are better!

Quote:

METAFUSE NANOTECHNOLOGY
Dupont™ Zytel ST Nylon coated with ultra-stiff nanocrystalling metal particles 1/75,000 the size of the human hair. Light as a feather, and has the wear resistance of hardened steel.

INJECTED MAGNESIUM
This high-tech process is four times the strength of aluminum with only half the weight. Plus, magnesium is easily recycled and remains the eighth most abundant material on the planet.

EXTRUDED ALUMINUM
Extruded aluminum comes out 100-percent pure and maintains its true shape no matter how much wear and tear you inflict. Union was first to bring the extrusion process to snowboarding and remains the sole company using it.

CARBON FIBER
Extremely lightweight and supremely strong, Union Carbon is “full carbon” through and through— not just cosmetic. If you demand high quality and precision, carbon components are for you.

ALUMINUM HARDWARE
By increasing the thickness of the natural surface oxide layer, the anodizing process beefs up a metal’s strength by 30-percent. Drastically lighter than normal hardware.

GRADE 8.8 HARDWARE
The most commonly used hardware is made from “mild steel” that has a property class of only 4.6. But considering how much stress a binding goes through, we use only highest-strength steel (featuring a property class of 8. Cool

on all hardware.

DUPONT ZYTEL ST NYLON
Union uses only the highest-quality Dupont™ Zytel® ST nylon throughout our entire binding collection. The result is the strength, safety, security, and the confidence of a lifetime warranty on all baseplates.

Minimal Contact
It’s a simple fact—the larger your binding’s baseplate, the more effect it has on the way your board flexes. Union baseplates are designed to provide supreme strength with the smallest footprint possible—crucially reducing interference with a board’s true flex.

True Board Flex
Once they’re mounted, bindings create “dead zones”—areas under the baseplates where your board won’t flex. With this in mind, all Union bindings are designed to promote a free, even board flex for sweeter response, better board control, and improved durability.

Fiberglass Index
Bigger riders require stiffer bindings, so we proportionally increase the fiberglass content from our size medium bindings to the XL’s— ensuring perfect support for any rider who straps in.

Anti-Vibration
Union’s innovative injected-EVA bushing systems dampen vibrations underfoot to promote a more comfortable ride and a smooth, even board flex with no dead spots. Each size comes with its own durometer for custom performance.

Asymmetrical / Symmetrical Highback
We’ve taken our Multizone Highback to the next level by combining the total freedom of movement you want in the air with the strategic support you need to set down the landing gear.

Multizone Highback
Dupont™ Zytel® ST injected Multizone Highbacks are tapered towards the top, providing flex and tweakability where you want it, support and durability where you need it.

MetaFuse Nanotech Heelcups
The absolute lightest and strongest in snowboarding, MetaFuse heelcups are as good as it gets. Union is one the first companies to bring this technology to the market (in any market)— and when it comes to snowboarding, it’s still exclusive to Union.

Extruded & Anodized Aluminum
Tried and true after five years on the market, every Union heelcup undergoes an anodizing process— reinforcing the already bombproof apparatus with another 30-percent strength. It’s serious strength in a streamline package.

Strap Technology
High-performance, highly comfortable ankle and toe straps keep your feet locked in and on point. It’s called TrueFit™ strap technology, and it includes Multi-Position toe straps for the ultimate in premium personalization.

Compatible Disks
Compatible with any traditional 4×4 mounting system and 3-Hole , along with Burton snowboards featuring The Channel , you can
mount Union Bindings on any board you choose.

ADJUSTMENT IS BETTER
Stance width is all about personal preference, and having the ability to dial in your stance exactly how you want it is a must. Let’s face it—the chances of your board inserts lining up exactly where you want them are slim to none. By running your disk slots parallel to your board’s edge, you will have a wider range of stance width options. Now you can use your adjustable heelcups and toe ramps to get your feet centered while making sure your toe/heel adjustment is perfect.

Many of those features are exactly the same as what other manufacturers have but dressed up with other names.

eldi - Sep 09, 2010 - 01:04 PM
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R1ch wrote:

thief wrote:

Are union any good then?

You are just fishing now! Laughing

I'd call it trolling Smile

nickmotture - Sep 09, 2010 - 01:06 PM
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Well of course theyre simillar the're only snowboard bindings! You read the technology specs of any TV or camera but take the casing off and theyre almost identical, it doenst stop Sony etc making up stupid names for simple micro chips that everyone uses though. Most things are copywrited so they have to make up new names for stuff.

A binding is a binding, they are all the same but all different, some are stronger than others some are lighter than others, some are shinnier than others with more ghetto gold bits. Only Burton have something really different with that idiotic EST system which is just different for differents sake.

Just depends what suits you personally but no one forces anyone to buy anything. Just think of Pantene shampoo adverts with their 'Vitamin pro v" This is a made up term, they havent invented a new vitamin that no one else known about they've just made up a name for something thats always exsisted. Thats commercialism.

R1ch - Sep 09, 2010 - 01:06 PM
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eldi wrote:

R1ch wrote:

thief wrote:

Are union any good then?

You are just fishing now! Laughing

I'd call it trolling Smile

Troll's gotta eat! Cool