Snowboard Club UK
UK - Designs for future indoor snowboard park
mattlobley - May 08, 2008 - 11:13 AM
Post subject: Designs for future indoor snowboard park
All
I am a keen boarder and architect.
I have a client who wishes to build a purpose built snowboard park on one of two sites in the UK. I am looking to bring in a number of UK sponsored riders to give their opinions and advice to what a new centre needs and how it can differ to the generic indoor slopes which are up and down the country.
Feel free to contact me with any ideas or if you are intersested on having an input in the design of a purpose built snowboard centre.
Cheers
Tomahawk - May 08, 2008 - 11:31 AM
Post subject: RE: Designs for future indoor snowboard park
permanent park. all day every day.
ace_mcgraw - May 08, 2008 - 11:47 AM
Post subject: RE: Designs for future indoor snowboard park
True - I think looking at the slopes over in Holland and Germany may be a good place to start, cos I believe they've got permanent parks, and largescale snow features - does one of them have a half pipe?
craikeybaby - May 08, 2008 - 11:50 AM
Post subject: RE: Designs for future indoor snowboard park
I know Landgraaf had one when they opened their second slope, I'm not too sure if it is there all the time though. Landgraaf is certainly a good place to have a look at if you want to know what an indoor slope should be like...
eldi - May 08, 2008 - 12:02 PM
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Make it progression friendly with small medium and large hits all the time and while you are at it how about including a half pipe too!
charliebuoy - May 08, 2008 - 12:08 PM
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You need to work out how to make real snow kickers that don't fall to bits and have decent landings. The prgression friendly thing is a good point too.
dunx - May 08, 2008 - 12:17 PM
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UK sponsored riders are not the people to ask as for much of the year they'll be riding abroad. You need to ask the people who will want to use the slope all year round, so please take the suggestions made here as probably the best group of people to ask from a snowboarding perspective at least.
I've worked with the architects for the Snowdonia Gateway project before. I could dig the documents out I did for them if they'd be helpful.
robtheslob - May 08, 2008 - 04:20 PM
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If you can get the kickers right, you have people flooding in. I dont know about others, but I would certainly trade a day MK
for a couple of hours at a snowflex slope with perfect kickers.
nickmotture - May 08, 2008 - 04:28 PM
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Exactly what Dunx just said, dont ask the pros ask the punters, they're the one who will pay to fill the place day in day out, we are the ones who will be your bread and butter. And besides you dont just want advice form people who are really good riders, you want advice from people who are complete begginers about what they need from a dome too. It might seem better on a press release to mention x y and z pros were involved but its not actually going to help as much as talking to the 'normal folk'.
Tomahawk - May 09, 2008 - 12:39 AM
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in my opinion dont aks the punters ask the pros.
punters dont know what is required they just began.
you want input form 100 day+ a year riders who no whats what.
not someone who has been inspired to shred cos of video games.
shredcity - May 09, 2008 - 12:55 AM
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KICKERS!! - atleast one permanent kickers of atleast an intermediate size, if necessary incorporate groundworks into the snowdome design- that is a solid "tabletop" shape underneath the snow to reduce the amount of snow needed to build up and maintain a kicker
permanent kickers of a half decent size are the one feature most absent from uk snowdomes, and would get the most attention. they manage it over in holland!!
p.s. pls build snowdome in sheffield
shredcity - May 09, 2008 - 01:00 AM
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totally agree with whats been said before, there are many snowdomes which cater for punters, with 1metre tabletops (extremely small jumps) built only for two evenings a week, why not do something different and get a bit of attention? i would drive for 2 1/2 hours to ride a good decent sized snow kicker, + i'm sure a lot of other people would too
kap66 - May 09, 2008 - 06:16 AM
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loads of rail's and box's, ranging from beginner to expert!
personaly i prefer a nice rail to a kicker!
and an express lift, the faster you can get to the top the better!
robtheslob - May 09, 2008 - 07:52 AM
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It should be like kingvale in Tahoe.
They have all types of boxes and rails with beginnerish stuff as well as much larger rails.
http://www.kingvaleterrainproject.com/
nickmotture - May 09, 2008 - 12:25 PM
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shredcity wrote:
totally agree with whats been said before, there are many snowdomes which cater for punters, with 1metre tabletops (extremely small jumps) built only for two evenings a week, why not do something different and get a bit of attention? i would drive for 2 1/2 hours to ride a good decent sized snow kicker, + i'm sure a lot of other people would too
Hang on a minute, most of us are punters, unless youre all pro and i dont know about it, punters are every day folk who turn up, pay the fee and use the facilities, the bread ad butter of every business! There isnt just punter and pro, there a huge range in between, intermediate riders who will ride week in week out. Asking the pros is going to get you a very narrow view of opinion, much of which will be useless when building something that intermediate and begginer snowboarders can use. There is little point in saying yeah build a massive kicker with a twenty meter table top...if very few people will actaully use it. You need something for everyone, especially if you are intending to make it commercially viable.
And its quite elitist and arrogant to pass of everyone who may ride now and again or be begginers off as only being there because they have seen a computer game.
charliebuoy - May 09, 2008 - 12:55 PM
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I think you quoted the wrong person Nick 
nickmotture - May 09, 2008 - 01:02 PM
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Woops a daisey
evilfairy - May 09, 2008 - 01:36 PM
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avoiding the arguments about who to ask, obviously the pro's have done it all and know what they want and what they think beginners should have, and beginners know what they feel comfortable doing, so all skill levels should have some input
what people seem to want is
a fixed park area catering for beginners, pros and all levels in between including kickers, rails, boxes etc
a half pipe
good lifts
as standard most slopes I've see have
a training slope
a main slope
having fixed parks means everyone can use it anytime, meaning the slope wont be over busy on park nights (as there wont be park nights)
I'd suggest having a fixed rookie park as part of the training slope to allow lessons on easy stuff without having to share with regualr users
also everyone here's just talking about the park, the main slope should be interesting, take into account those skiers that slalom/race and make room for them as well as plenty of open space for normal riders that want to just go from top to bottom, the less of the slope that needs closing for special events the better as if special stuffs already there it might encourage people to advance, and it wont annoy people when half the slopes closed for an event if the stuff was already in place on a part of the slope the didn't use.
so in translation make it big, put fixed toys in for everyone but lots of room for those not using the toys so they're able to avoid landing zones safely and easily
also the longer the slope is and faster the lifts the better, someone mentioned to include an express lift, everyone hates the waiting for the lift and it spoils things if your queuing 10 mins for a 1 min run
nickmotture - May 09, 2008 - 01:45 PM
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Problem with fixed toys is that like it or not, us lot are quite a small minority. Most revenue comes from recreational skiers/snowboaders, lessons etc..and lets not forget taboganing! (spelling?) leaving the toys out all the time take valuable space away from what, frankly, pays the bills. I'd love a perminant park as much as the next person but just dont think its really an option...unless they really did blow the record away and make it mahaseeeeeve!!
Luke-M - May 09, 2008 - 02:37 PM
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Make sure theres enough space for run ups.
Also try and find a way to stop ski-ers from using the sides of kicks on to rails as little jumps.
charliebuoy - May 09, 2008 - 02:51 PM
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In the interests of fairness, I think you'll find there's a problem with snowboarders doing that as well.
A quarter pipe would be amazing, a half pipe would be unbeliveable.
evilfairy - May 09, 2008 - 02:57 PM
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Yep I think we need a record breaking massively huge dome
Luke-M wrote:
Also try and find a way to stop ski-ers from using the sides of kicks on to rails as little jumps.
simple answer's to put small kickers out as well and the rests up to the people running the slope to say if you're not using the rail don't use its kicker
eldi - May 09, 2008 - 03:04 PM
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Luke-M wrote:
Also try and find a way to stop ski-ers from using the sides of kicks on to rails as little jumps.
Would this not be a management issue rather than by design ?
snowgirl1324 - May 09, 2008 - 03:37 PM
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Just build it in the Southwest and I'll be happy!
NoelRichards - May 09, 2008 - 06:03 PM
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to be fair, if you want to make an impact with this snowdome you'll need a very progressive park. not wanting to p anyone off but there are plenty of domes for people to hone their skills on easier obstacles. you could put in some beginner friendly jibs but i reckon you should mainly emphasise on big and gnarl factor, thats whats we dont have in the uk. look at snowpark nz, 200 metres of piste and there's plenty of people travelling half the world to go shred there.
Flufball - May 09, 2008 - 06:55 PM
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Are you looking specifically for comments on the park or comments on what people would like to see in an overall site including a park?
Many of the suggestions I feel could be made cover more the whole rather than park specifics.
ace_mcgraw - May 09, 2008 - 07:43 PM
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Quote:
look at snowpark nz, 200 metres of piste and there's plenty of people travelling half the world to go shred there.
yeah, I don't think that sort of thing is viable in an indoor place tho.
Lets face it as a business it's gonna have to appeal to everyone. Skiers and snowboarders who wanna ride park is a narrow category, and those who are good enough to use the huge gnarly stuff are such a tiny minority, it would more or less be corporate suicide to produce a huge park. Lets face it, most of the riders who would be able to ride that are the pro's, and do you really think they're gonna go to a shed in an industrial estate in England when they can ride top parks all winter here, then go to NZ or Chile or whereever else during the summer?
I think one thing that would be good would for it to just be interesting. The majority of people, even the most basic and square of skiers like to jump off stuff, even if it's just a little snow bank, or something similar to a cat track. When I was at Chill Factor last time it was completely flat - the only bit to jump off was a little pile of snow built up where people turn, and they flattend that out when they saw us jumping it! A little more excitement than that would be great! Maybe building up a snowbank on one side to simulate the side of a cat track to mess around on all the time, or maybe not making it straight like Tam may make it more interesting to people.
BoardingJay - May 09, 2008 - 10:46 PM
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Would having 3 lines all the time be an idea so theres one for the beginners, one for the intermediates and one for the experts? Maybe mix em up on certain nights so on wed you have 2 experts, 1 intermediate on thursday 2 intermediates, 1 expert and on friday 2 easy ones and one 1 intermediate one... Surely this encourages people to progress? Don't get angry at me for this sh!te idea, i'm just saying what comes into my head...
shredcity - May 09, 2008 - 11:28 PM
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nickmotture wrote:
Hang on a minute, most of us are punters, unless youre all pro and i dont know about it, punters are every day folk who turn up, pay the fee and use the facilities, the bread ad butter of every business! There isnt just punter and pro, there a huge range in between, intermediate riders who will ride week in week out. Asking the pros is going to get you a very narrow view of opinion, much of which will be useless when building something that intermediate and begginer snowboarders can use. There is little point in saying yeah build a massive kicker with a twenty meter table top...if very few people will actaully use it. You need something for everyone, especially if you are intending to make it commercially viable.
ok- but I'm not slagging off beginners, or talking 20m tables- just that something atleastof a rideable size say a permanent 15ft tabletop - would not be hard to do and would cater for a lot of riders.
of course there's a spectrum of riders, and when i say punters i'm talking about guys trying indys on tiny kickers, not that theres anything wrong with them! every1 was a beginner at some point, but it gets annoying every freestyle night when the only kickers out are unrideably small 2 metre tabletops- good for nothing except novelty tricks
look at slopes like halifax- its not elitist, it doesnt cater only for pros, and its not going bust- its just a good decent sized kicker why can't we have that indoors??!
arby - May 10, 2008 - 09:25 PM
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http://www.tearoomproductions.com/
click on the 4th one down (tv summer jammin). looked soo good!
robtheslob - May 10, 2008 - 09:34 PM
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it was,
but if you are just getting into freestyle its not what you want to be riding!
You need a small area for beginners with ride on boxes as well as the larger stuff.
BoardingJay - May 10, 2008 - 09:57 PM
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how about something like the nomis box at CoC
Tomahawk - May 10, 2008 - 10:07 PM
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yea that thing looks fun
nickmotture - May 10, 2008 - 10:24 PM
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You cant really compare running costs for dry slope and fridge, a dry slope had basically no running costs and over heads, just staff and some repairs. You compare that to how much it'l cost to run a fridge and then you see why its so much easier for dry slopes to be more freestyle orientated and cater to much for the 'minority'.
shredcity - May 10, 2008 - 11:28 PM
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fair point
robtheslob - May 11, 2008 - 09:58 AM
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thats huge!
BoardingJay - May 11, 2008 - 11:52 AM
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Just be creative... Something new that sets you apart from all the other places...
Take Kingvale and their new "Ball And Chain" feature -
