Snowboard Club UK
Equipment and Media - Complaints about 3rd parties
dunx - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:15 PM
Post subject: Complaints about 3rd parties
Please, please, please... if you have a complaint about a third party, take it up with them first before complaining about them on the forum.
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:17 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
who did that?!
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:19 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Dunx
Are there legal ramifications for U and SCUK in these sort of matters...?
Just thinking of the famous F*** u Cas Xscape thread... that all worked out for the best!
dunx - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:22 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
One of the mags is complaining that all people do on here is whinge about them. Naturally there are legal ramifications, but I don't think we've quite got to that yet.
It is a little rude to have a problem with somebody and not try to sort it out with them in the first instance though. The forums (here and "there") already have a really bad reputation for being full of whingers. It doesn't really do anybody any favours as 3rd parties will simply start ignoring the forum, where it could be a good place for them to come and join in the fun.
bars - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:25 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
which mag? if it's Max Power they deserve all the crap they get
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:27 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Sounds fair enough - as members of the Trinity we'll keep our eyes and ears open and try to help...
wendy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:27 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
I'm a third party! If you have a complaint about me, we'll take it outside. 
Not just magazines... Ellis Brigham, MK, Tamworth, any snow holiday companies, any gear/kit producers etc. Basically, a third party is anyone who is not you or SCUK.
Dunx's post is about 3rd party or companies as opposed to individuals. But the same applies to individuals too - you should be dealing with them directly instead of slagging people off on the forum.
Bigsteve - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:29 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
I don't think it'd help SCUK's profile in the industry if their website is full of complaints. Can't see that helping when Dunx wants to get advertising etc.
Having said that, if they don't like people complaining in public, they ought to get things sorted & keep their customers happy!
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:29 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
hmmm when did people moan about a magazine? i COULD mention the lack of libtechs in documents board test but it is such a fine magazine i don't mind. although they should bring back the filth section as it always inspired me to greatness in life.
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:33 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
I think in general this is common sense. You ain't gonna solve a dispute without goin direct to the person u have a gripe with. But if you have taken every possible course action to remedy the situation between urself and the third party, is it then acceptable to voice your experience on this forum, as a "warning" to others?
dunx - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:37 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Note the subtle use of the word "first" in my original post.
Like the email says...
Quote:
You know how when you have problem with your bank, you call the bank? Well...
It's a fair comment really.
bars - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:40 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
i think you should let us know who it is, so we can go give 'em a big hug and tell them they're great
Mal - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:40 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
But on the other side -
G was bigging up the staff at Bucks, for the excellent service he got.
Only right it works both ways tho - and you/SCUK get the credit to
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:47 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
It's like the Cas Xscape Thread... we all griped, Cas took notice and the listening group was formed...
The outcome... great communication between the slope & riders... better understanding... and better riding..
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:48 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
i'm just curious about what could have been so bad. we'd all better start scouring threads
bars - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:50 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
yeah but i can see how Whitelines (i'm guessing it's them) would be pissed off with that guy who was bitching that he didn't have his sub stuff through without even contacting them. That'd piss me off.
PS. Whitelines I love you, can I have a free Sub please? I promise I'll wear the t-shirt every day and everything.
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:52 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
ahh i see. i like white lines. for a while it jostled with document to be my favourite. but now onboard is my favouriote for its interviews with obscure french/scandinavian riders and lovely articles liek the brilliant pulp 68 one in the last issue.
but whitelines is still good.
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:53 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Well if it is Whitelines I am surprised...
When I rang up to check when my subscription ran out, I spoke to one of the lovliest most helpful ladies I've ever come across. She even sent me an extra "saver card" out ...
Mal - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:53 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
G,
Hope this helps you 'scour' the threads. Right tools for the job, etc :
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:55 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
i prefer those green cloths cos in france they're called tampons
BeanieBoy - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:56 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
mmmm going off topic me thinks!!
CaptainG - Oct 20, 2004 - 03:59 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
ah, whitelines know we love them.
Motojojo - Oct 20, 2004 - 07:26 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Constructive critisizism - good
Whining - not good
You know it makes sense, like boarding rather than skiing
Wahchild - Oct 20, 2004 - 07:36 PM
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Ah, White Lines - best photo captions in all of magazinedom.
Document's good as well (which is why I subscribed - and will be again to get my hands on the Rome hipflask).
We're should think ourselves lucky in this country - we get more Snowboard magazines than snow.
Mal - Oct 22, 2004 - 10:08 PM
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agreed
CaptainG - Oct 23, 2004 - 08:39 AM
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I remember when onboard did an article about some french guys doing the spencer couloir in chamonix. best photo of a monoboarder doing extreme off piste in a snowboard magazine ever.
stu - Oct 26, 2004 - 02:15 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
We all should just be aware that if "one" has a problem with a company or individual then it should be taken up with them first or at least if its going to be made public on this forum that, what "one" says is an informed opinion and not just a off the cuff remark which can easily influence someone who has no idea, causing damage to harm to a reputation which may be quite respectable...
Make sense?
hagwag - Oct 31, 2004 - 10:18 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Some! This forrum is about snowboading and stuff innit and you much better than me and stuff yeah but I understand what you mean dude as people always moan like fudge about stuff like on t'interweb before they actually complain to like the proper people an our tracy is like like awsome dude yeah but and such an it pisses me off too total knob ends and stuff like that innit brah! Respeckhh, is all feckin purps at end of tha day innit brah.
hagwag - Nov 20, 2004 - 09:26 AM
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One feels the ale was good that night 
Matt-Wildrnes - Nov 20, 2004 - 11:44 AM
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....
tonestar - Dec 07, 2004 - 03:45 PM
Post subject: go on keep moaning
I've worked on mags before and we like to get feedback or we did when I was on one... dunno maybe the truth hurts - but the reader is always right ; ))
Liquid_Violence - Dec 07, 2004 - 03:53 PM
Post subject: RE: go on keep moaning
It depends what the complainings about I guess. If you issues not turned up or a freebies missing then heres not really the place to bitch about it, give em a ring.
Were as if you feal that a mag covers too much park and not enough freeride then, as long as you dont make it a slagging match, here would be a good place to guage the general opinion.
Does that make sence?
dunx - Dec 07, 2004 - 04:03 PM
Post subject: RE: go on keep moaning
They don't mind complaints. That's not the issue. The issue is griping on a forum and then the 3rd party hearing about it weeks later. If you want a problem sorted, then get it sorted, don't just whinge to other people. We'll all be speaking in American accents if we're not carefull.
Shiny - Mar 11, 2005 - 01:04 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: go on keep moaning
dunx wrote:
We'll all be speaking in American accents if we're not carefull.
I didn't fight in 2 World Wars to hear that sort of talk, young fella! The tea's not the same, there's no Watney's Red Barrel, and ooh it's too hot. Where's me dinner?
Dazzler74 - Apr 23, 2005 - 03:30 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: go on keep moaning
What about if you make the effort to contact the third party in the manner they requested but they fail to respond?
GinaG - Apr 23, 2005 - 03:39 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
It's not all whiners and if mk/cas or tam have the nerve to say we whinge, think about how many people go waste 20 quid a week to use there services, come on we bring so much business to people as a whole i think we deserve the right to slag people off together.....we're all generally happy people, and if mags start saying we're doing them no favours lol i think we need to all sort out our subscriptions else where.....This is more like a suggestion type of whinge, if they actually listened to the customers more often we wouldn't have to come here to moan.
Sorry, my whinge over....carry on with the smiles peoples.
dunx - Apr 23, 2005 - 03:51 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
It's a general consensus that people find it too easy to bring their problems here before they have even tried to address it with the party concerned. That's not the case all the time, but in my 4 years on here and "there" I've seen so many people complaining about slopes, equipment and a host of other things, only to find out they have never even tried to address their grievencies directly. That doesn't do anybody any favours.
All the magazines complain about it, but it is the ones that actually bother to check out the forum once in a while who I hear from the most and it's those sorts of people who we should have on all of our sides, rather than fighting against them.
Simply put "it's very easy to complain about something".
Dazzler74 - Apr 23, 2005 - 04:04 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Perhaps people bring their problems to the forum first to see what other people think first - We are all snowboarders so we should be able to discuss it here. If the debate gets a bit heated..it gets a bit heated...
Companies often forget that their 'bread and butter' comes directly from our pockets and instead act like they are doing us a favour...and that we owe them!!
As I said, what if you direct your responses in private direct to the company involved and they just bypass you (even when you have given plenty of time/opportunity for them to contact you) and come on this forum and make you out as the bad guy and single you out!! Should you not be able to state your opinion on the forum then...sometimes you have to fight as its the only way to get any action!!!
Face-plant - May 08, 2005 - 11:14 AM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Mmmmmmmmmm freedom of speach etc etc. it is always advisable to contact the third party first and to try and resolve any issues that have arisen but if the issues are not resolved, I see no problem with comments being made public in that instance. Afterall it is one persons opinion of the third party and all things equall if there is a problem the third party should try and resolve the same amicably, but at the same time there will be a large proportion of good comments re that third party.
slonger - Jun 30, 2005 - 09:22 AM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
True it can be a pain for 3rd parties if people complain on here first, but when we were sponsor of theboarder i welcomed any comments that appeared in the forum, it helped us improve the service we were offering. If the provider cannot answer the complainer or find a solution then the complaint is valid....nuff said?
neptune39 - Oct 12, 2005 - 02:23 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
I hate the way some forums are going. What is a forum if its controlled. The beauty of the internet is the way it gives us somewhere to bitch and say what we want.
If I have an opinion then its my opinion, not SCUK's, and even if im completely in the wrong I still have a right to say it. I think in the future if they give you any gripe send tell them to post a reply or pm the person who posted in the first place.
The problem for them is its uncontrollable and that scares anyone in marketing. Look at apple for example, if it wasn't for forums they would have got away with pretending the ipod nano was perfect. I'm sure many people talked direct to apple and got told to sod off, a bit of media coverage from posts online and apple suddenly admit to a problem.
thedoctor - Oct 12, 2005 - 02:29 PM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Ditto
Kons - Oct 20, 2005 - 09:46 AM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
if people complain here about 3rd parties first then the person complains takes the away the choice of the 3rd party to rectify the situation. I say 3 emails and 3 phone call attempts over 2 weeks is reasonable after that you're being feck about and then it's fair enough to come onto here and warn others and get their views and opinions.
dunx - Oct 20, 2005 - 09:58 AM
Post subject: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
It's called goodwill. If people come on here and complain about every tiny little thing without *first* trying to address the problem with the problemee (is that a word), then the forum quickly gets a reputation for a place full of whingers and the site gets ignored, we lose respect within the industry, prizes dry up, the membership pack shrinks, we lose members and fold. Simple as.
Of course everybody has a right to their opinion and an opinion is 100% valid as an opinion. But if that opinion isn't thought to be right, then everybody else has an equal right to say so and they're 100% valid too as opinions.
If you'd like to give me an example where opinions have been moderated on this forum, then feel free. I know of one such example and he was warned not to do it by PM before he did.
Lesley - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:11 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
dunx wrote:
Of course everybody has a right to their opinion and an opinion is 100% valid as an opinion. But if that opinion isn't thought to be right, then everybody else has an equal right to say so and they're 100% valid too as opinions.
.
WTF 
thedoctor - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:15 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Complaints about 3rd parties
Dunx is a politician u know!
YourMum - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:21 AM
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If were not allowed to complain about 3rd parties does that mean they can't be complimented either? does it work both ways or are these 3rd partied more than happy for us to sit here complimenting them?
Surely we should be just as entitled to say that you had a really good holiday with a company as much as a really sh1te time with another? or you like a certain aspect of 1 magazine and dislike another?
And if everyones opinion is 100% valid why cant we complain about 3rd parties? Isn't the forum a place of discussion? I'd quite happily sit in the pub and slate a 3rd party, is the only difference that this is in writing?
shedimus - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:28 AM
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errrrrr
Kat - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:29 AM
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I think the point is you can complain, but don't use the forum to dish the dirt and moan without having tried to sort the issue with the company/3rd party first.
At least that's what I think is the deal anyway
thedoctor - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:30 AM
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I want to make a 3rd pary complaint avout a second party, at a 1st party
TheDon - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:31 AM
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I think there is too much politics involved in this!
I work in marketing and think a forum can be far more beneficial than any other medium. Word of mouth advertising is known within marketing to be highly regarded but also very difficult to budget for and promote.
All customers have the right to complain about products and it's these complaints that improve the products and service and the forum is technically saving the companies money on market research to find out what their customers are not happy with.
Personally i think if the people that worked within the marketing department for these companies were any good they would use these complaints to their advantage and use the forum to show other customers that if you are unhappy in anyway then they will try to rectify the problem, this will lead to other potential customers seeing that your service is fantastic and you will be promoting your product to hundreds even thousands of potential customers for free!
Marketing people take note!!!
P.S I am currently looking for a new job, if anybody is interest please PM me! - see using the forum to benefit yourself, it works!!
shedimus - Oct 20, 2005 - 10:32 AM
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1. where is this party?
2. will there be pigtails?
3. Kat that avatar is great
4. Hi doc missed you hun
thedoctor - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:02 AM
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-Air Kiss- shed!
:kiss:
dunx - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:03 AM
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You're all right of course.
All we're saying is that complaining about a problem on here rarely gets that problem fixed. The example that started all this was somebody complaining that they hadn't received a DVD with their Whitelines subscription (I think... something like that anyway) and basically slagging them off fairly severely. Turned out he hadn't even contacted the mag and if he had he would have found out that they were waiting for more stock.
It's very easy to shoot you mouth off on a forum, but you need to ask whether what you have to say is constructive. I have no problem with people saying what they think is good or bad. That's what the forum is for. What I'm talking about is using the forum to get a specific problem addressed. It doesn't usually help.
YourMum - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:04 AM
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I'm a bit unsure why I have to wait to complain about something only after discussing it with the 3rd party... What if im finding out if anyone else has had a similar experience and how they went about solving it.
Surley thats the entire point of the forum, to discuss your experiences at whatever stage they are at (before or after talking to the 3rd party) so others can help and give advice? Surely the forum should be an opportunity for the industry to evolve to suit the customer rather than stop debate. If a company finds they are getting a bad rep on the forum its up to them to step in and solve it, not up to us to have our wrists slapped and be quiet!
charliebuoy - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:15 AM
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I think what Dunx is trying to say is that before you begin bad mouthing a company on the forum you should address them directly with your problem because it may actually be something very simple to fix. If there are still problems then by all means moan away on the forum. If it's just a blatant case of poor customer service or poor quality products then of course you can give your opinion on here and say what a pile of crap they are because that's an experience that probably isn't going to be rectified by gointg to the 3rd party. Or something like that anyway 
TheDon - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:21 AM
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I agree with Dunx here. If it was something as simple as not recieving a DVD i would have approached the mag first. If i bought a TV and it didn't contain the remote in the box i wouldn't post it on a techy forum before even telling the retailer or manufacture about the problem. I would call the customer support and ask for a remote if the service was sh1t then i would post.
But obviously this is a public forum and the people that work for the magazines can also post on here to resolve the problem.
thedoctor - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:23 AM
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YourMum - Oct 20, 2005 - 11:25 AM
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fair point charliebuoy, if its something like equipment problems and you need a strap replacing then you should go to the company 1st, but if 20 people need new straps cos they keep breaking isnt it our responsibility to mention it. I know you can mention it without complaining but its difficult to write something negative without it sounding like a complaint.
I get what you mean though, if its an individual problem then it isnt going to get solved by whinging on the site.
oopalley - Jun 13, 2006 - 12:43 AM
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I may be wrong but i am pretty sure that in our free democracy it is actually illegal to make public statements that are defamatory or that may have a detrimental effect on a persons business. And not only that but it is the owner of a forum who is ultimately responsible for the content on the site.
xtremejay - Aug 13, 2006 - 08:00 PM
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there are to ways of posting a problem,
1) just got my copy of ..........., and didnt recieve my dvd, did anyone else have this prob??
2) or ........... is crap useless, mag was late, no dvd what a rip off, dont subscribe bunch of.......
see what i mean?
Harvey - Nov 22, 2006 - 08:56 PM
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That Santa Claus is a complete and utter C$*t. Talk about rubbish service. I have written letters on a yearly basis and have been ignored every time. Has anyone else on here had similar issues with this complete waste of space?
sam132 - Jan 12, 2007 - 06:19 PM
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Harvey wrote:
That Santa Claus is a complete and utter C$*t. Talk about rubbish service. I have written letters on a yearly basis and have been ignored every time. Has anyone else on here had similar issues with this complete waste of space?
When opening my presents on christmas day I never recived my Burton Custom, I wrote a letter asking for it.
Anyone else have a similar problem?
Any better xtremejay 
Sam
specialyblended - Jan 27, 2007 - 02:52 AM
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Cambridge Dictionary Definition of Forum:
- A situation or meeting in which people can talk about a problem or matter especially of public interest -
Surely the point of this site is to allow people involved in this silly little sport of snowboarding to express whatever opinion they have on any issue relating to sliding sideways - if you are going to open Pandoras box then you have to deal with the consequences, dont invite people to express an opinion if you are afraid of what you might hear.
We the riders will always decide the future of shredding, companies come and magazines go, brands die and fashions fade, but as long as the smallest snowflake sits atop some distant peak there will be someone to ride it - the reason snowboarding is what it is today is because the founding fathers spoke their minds when nobody wanted to hear what they had to say, they stuck their middle finger up at those who would not accept it, and this is the heritage and attitude no matter how diluted by ski company fiddling and FIS f++k ups that we inherit and continue to shred by. . . .
Any entity, company or organisation who seeks to charm us with their wares and seduce us with their sh1t step ins and glow in the dark stomp pads, or whore us out in order to promote their sh!ty little product should know that if they dance with the sport they once saw as the devil they could get burnt, and right here on SCUK is where the very public roasting will take place, until inevitably one day our successors decide that another forum serves them better . . . .
www.myspaceisgay.com
nedrapier - Feb 18, 2007 - 07:12 PM
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Yeah, with you all the way there, you can and should be able to say what you want on here. In many instances it might be the most useful outlet you have. e.g. what you think of FIS involvement in competitive snowboarding.
But I think the point of the original post was that if you actually want something done about the shonky product/service you've received, you're better off going to back to the shop or the manufacturer you got it from and giving them a chance to sort it out for you.
Who's stupider (and angrier):
a) the guy who's bought a jacket that's falling apart and disappointing him greatly but who just keeps on grumbling about it,
or
b) the guy who takes his jacket back to the shop and gets a brand new one? (and a pair of bindings as well because the first jacket was ridiculously overpriced)
I was Mr. a), I spent about 6 months walking to work in the jacket, wasting a lot of brain space composing strongly worded letters to Burton. If I'd found this forum earlier, I might have been posting on here. A legitimate reply would have been: "Have you tried doing anything about it? Anything at all?" At which point I would have had to shut up.
As of last weekend I'm Mr. b). I've still got the same opinion about Burton design and materials (which, to be fair, has partly been formed by other people's grumbling), but at least I've had an opportunity to be thoroughly satisfied by their (and TSA's) returns policy. And get a Mountain Equipment jacket and some Relays with my credit note.
And from the "public interest" point of view, a story about shonky goods/service on it's own isn't as much use to anyone as a story which also includes what the company did with your complaint.
nedrapier - Feb 18, 2007 - 07:16 PM
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If you've complained and you're still p1ssed off, THEN come on here and roast 'em!
rockinrob - Apr 17, 2007 - 09:07 PM
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I complained about cas recently on here, i did emial them first though, but i just thought if a few people had the same gripe then maybee they would take note rather than one email from one person as there are lots of people here who use cas, I see your point I wont do it again sorry
dunx - Apr 17, 2007 - 09:38 PM
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Not aimed at you specifically rockinrob... I really don't mind people complaining, but it's not always a solution. If you want a solution, then contact them directly. 100 emails is better than 1 forum thread, but it is a useful guage of opinion and information. For those third parties hat don't even know about the forum (and the indoor slopes do and use them regularly), then whinging might make you feel better, but rarely gets you very far.
Dazzler74 - Apr 18, 2007 - 06:33 PM
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it might even get you banned